From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!

From Wed Sep  8 01:31:19 1999
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
Lines: 257
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 04:01:50 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 21:01:50 PDT

Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!

Tonight, was an evening with a throwaway chick (Ms. Tubby, a cute 
`7', but had a little bit of a belly), which I fumbled and ended up not 
laying. Even though I am already fucking some "regulars" who I like 
who are better looking than this chick, I often date throwaway chicks 
and try to fuck them, just to practice laying chicks and to learn 
something/improve my style. Tonight was no exception. I learned 
something very interesting from this which will discuss after the 
detailed report, especially concerning `types of chicks', and matching 
your approaches to types of chicks. I found this out when calling a 
second chick right after the first one left, and noticing a stunning 
difference in reaction to pretty much the same approach. The result 
with Tubby, was pretty much a "Ms Sparkles" spaghetti chick type 
result, even though I did do the things that NYC said this time. I did 
find some other things I did wrong though WITH THIS TYPE OF 
CHICK. My impression (now) is that Tubby was looking for an easy 
no obligation lay, and wanted me to give it to her. I fumbled because I 
though she wanted more than that, and tried to protray myself as that 
kind of guy. First the story, then my analysis, and corrections I will 
make. Comments welcome as usual!

Allright, first the report. Ms Tubby  is a girl I met in the disco the
night I was out with Picasso on Friday. I was in a good laughing mood on 
Friday, and made eye contact with her as I was moving, and we hit it 
off fairly well in the bar initially. Her English was so, so I thought 
(though tonight I found that her english is okay, but she often doesn't 
listen, rather she is thinking the next thing to say). I get her
number, and call her a couple days later. When I got her number, she said to
call her before she went to London 8 months later..that was strange..but ok.

When I call her, she doesn't remember who I am, but is game to meet 
me anyways. We make an arrangement for the next evening after work 
in Shibuya, a busy area a couple stations from my house (I often meet 
chicks here the first time because chicks are usually afraid to go to
the station where I live, as it is a bit obscure and it makes them 
uncomfortable I found). I get to Shibuya., and the chick is waiting.
She is dressed well and looks good. I meet her and she immediately takes 
my hand (a good sign). Then I ask her if she ate, and she asks me if I 
ate. I say no, and then she says no (clue, I think she would have said 
`yes' had I said so). I suggest to go get a bite nearby. She has this
really confused look on her face now (I think she expected me to take her 
right home and fuck her). We start to go to a place neary to eat, and
she remarks that there are good places near my own station (clue #2 which 
I pick up). I tell her lets go there then. So we do. 

We get there, and we order. I start to talk to her now. Here is where
the fumble begins I think. This chick wanted to fuck. She didn't want to 
talk (turns out she is rather boring to talk to, and is hard to
interact with). But we are eating now instead (actually, I did this, because
many chicks freak out if you try to take them home instantly, or say they
are hungry when they get there, and want to go someplace to eat). 

When talking I ask her if she has a BF. I asked her this at the club,
and the reply (in the noise) I thought I heard, was "several", but it was 
really loud. So I asked if she is the type with lots of BFs and she
says "maybe". Another clue, this girl likes to fuck around. Then I ask her 
what she wants in a BF and she says she doesn't want a BF (another 
clue, wants an easy relationship maybe). So I start to talk about sex 
stuff like NYC said, I start to talk about an old GF, and what she was 
like. But her response is negative, she starts picking on the fact that
I helped her choose her clothes, and how that was bad. (uh oh). And then 
when she starts talking, she stops listening to what I say, it is very
hard to direct conversation with this girl, and sometimes, I will say 
something (ie. Redirect to talking about a GF, or a past horny 
experience), and she will stop, (seem to) listen, and then continue on 
her unrelated subject (ie. Annoyances in the office) as if I hadn't
said anything.  

I tried to find other things and values, about her to anchor on to, but
it was hard, a bit like HB hotpants. I couldnt get any values out with
this chick no matter how I tried. When I am with some girls, I find they 
answer the questions and talk the proper way to help you pick them 
up.this chick wasnt doing that at all.. I asked her what she wanted for 
herself in the future, and she said "nothing special". Then I asked her
if she values excitement in her life (figuring, maybe this was her style, 
with all the BFs and all),l and she said no, she just wants ordinary
life, and for people to not to worry about her. Then she contracticted 
herself, and said that she didn't like boring either. She liked design
(ie. Furniture, lamps..etc) and lived in London to study this. I tried to
get the good feelings she had in London, and she liked it because she didnt 
like Japan.

I asked her if sometimes she was lonely (trying to model myself to fill 
that gap), and she replied no, she had many friends and everything was 
fine, and she didn't want a BF.

Now at this point, I think I know what she wants, an unttached no BF 
night of sex. However, because she is so self directing in the 
conversations, I am finding it very hard to get her in that horny
state. There were other problems (see my analysis below).

The other issue, is the tongue-down,. In Japan, chicks are very 
embarrassed to do kissing/tonguing in public. And in Tokyo, short of 
your place, or a hotel, there are not a whole lot of dark corners you
can do this (you just cannot believe how crowded and full of people Tokyo 
is), so although I wanted to do thiss earlier, the opportunity just did
not come up where I could.

So I ask her to my place after supper. She asks how far it is, and I
say about 5 minutes, we hold hands again, and she comes, no problem. I 
remark about the flowers on the trees how they are nice, and she says 
its boring, same in Japan every year (as I said, she didn't help me to 
pick her up at all). On the way to the house I also ask her if she is a 
good cook (to set up a supper date for the future possibly at my place
if tonight doesnt progress. She says "NO she hates cooking"..  Now we 
are walking to my place, holding hands.  My plan is to get her home, 
and just try to tongue her down and lay her. I will try to just kiss
her as soon as we get in, and set the tone from there, that has worked before. 

But not this time. As soon as we get in, she goes on her own to see the 
rooms downstairs, so I couldn't even get her before taking off my 
shoes. Here is where I make my other big fuckup I think. I turn on the 
lights, but they are dim, and I play soft nice music. This is usually 
lethal with chicks who are a bit into me at this stage, but I realize
now, that if a chick is just into sex, and not into me, it will have a
really creepy feel. I think this is what happened (and happened with sparkles 
too). For chicks into sex, but not romantically into me, the lights
should be up, and more uplifting music (maybe Dire Straights or something 
like that). I think she felt a little scared with the surroundings,
even though there was no question that I intended to fuck her when we got 
there, as the kino (minus the tongue down) was pretty good, even 
though the conversation was not.. 

Now at this point, I try to get her to shut up so I can work on her, I
try to take her hand, like we had been doing all night with no problem, and 
she is getting chilly now, and blabbing about work stuff, and some guy 
in Italy she was seeing, or "is" seeing but hasn't seen..etc. I try to 
anchor good feelings from that experience like NYC said, but it is not 
working. She is blabbing, but not listening, even though eye contactg
is very good. She did say something important near the end though. She 
said that often, it is good not to talk, and let the feelings take
over. I hear that, and shut up, and try to get her to shut up (which is hard).
I try to take her hand again, and do a massage after getting her to realize
hw stressful she has been. She takes my hand away, and gets really chilly, 
then says she has to go, and leaves. As NYC said, this time I dont say 
thank you for nice evening or anything like that. I make a good attempt 
to get her to stay, but then she leaves out the door. I don't bother to 
walk her to the station, considering her bad behavior.

Then, I decide to call up another chick (Boatbabe) I also met recently 
on a boat. This is where I make a stunning realization. This chick, I 
have already gotten to attach to me by my talking. She listens, and 
interacts well, and it is easy to guide her thoughts by my talking,
which I couldn't do at all with Tubby. Then I also reallize, that chicks like 
Boatbabe (evening report on her will come out after our date on 
Friday), I can usually lay and get feeling relaxed. These are chicks
that are lonely, and looking for emotional/personal support rather than just 
simply sex, my system lays them almost every time. 

But chicks with no attachment, who just want sex, or fun, like Tubby 
or Sparkles, I often fumble, because I try to get all this emotional
stuff going..WHICH THEY DONT WANT! (or my assumption anyways). I 
often fuck up these lays although they should be easier. Probably, had
I just taken Tubby home directly, and ordered a Pizza, I could have laid 
her probably. This one was a bit like some of NYC's, where he says he 
has the lay, but then when he opens his mouth, he loses it with that 

I also noticed, that this always happens only with chicks who come on 
strong to you early on (like sparkles, or tubby, or a couple others
last year). NYC, said that it was because they didn't expect a lay when they 
came over (sparkles), but in this case tonight, I am sure she knew what 
to expect when we got there. But she wasn't comfortable and relaxed, 
which is what caused her to run out around 9:15 with some lame 
excuse. So, from now on, chicks who come on strong early on, get a 
new approach than the "romantic ones" like boat chick, which I got 
hammered down now.

So, what is a good routine to lay a chick who wants a no obligation lay 
(it seems), and get her comfortable? Possibly, more joking (if this
chick would shut her mouth though), maybe a drinking game when we got to 
my place, rock music rather than piano music, and the lights up until 
the action started? Opinions guys, how do you do this?

There is the danger though, that pushing too much too quickly (Ie 
taking her home for pizza right away), could freak out a chick right 
away, and also get her to freeze up/run out pacing is hard when you 
dont know the chick well yet and what to expect..and especially, if
they arent helping you to seduce her, like this chick was acting. 

It is like some chicks dont want to be seduced, they just want to be 
fucked, and trying to seduce them first, will chill them out 
emotionally. but then how do you get to the fuck, if you dont do the 
seduction first especially if they behave like she did tonight (almost 
EXACTLY like sparkles behaves as soon as she got in the door). But 
then other times, with other chicks, if you dont seduce them first,
then they freak out when you try for the fuck.hummm. Maniac is stumped 
on this one..

Anyways, good learning experience, a throwaway chick, so no 
problem, but Maniac has to learn how to bag these easier "want just the 
lay" chicks.I think it takes a totally different approach than I am
used to doing.

Opinions on to why I fumbled and what to do different next time 

Maniac High

From Wed Sep  8 19:08:53 1999
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Evening Report: Maniac FUMBLES Ms. Tubby but makes a discovery!
Lines: 32
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 08:03:16 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:03:16 PDT

Actually, more on Ms. Tubby, as I go back to this about Sparkles,
and my other fuckups that happened with exactly this type of chick.

The trend is always the same for this type of chick:

-I meet the chick the first time, and she is very strong/forceful on 
the Kino, or the sweet talk early on, much stronger than usual.

-Then, I go out with her, and I cannot drive her imagination (only
these types of chicks, I have these problems, like Tubby). So I 
cannot get her horny thinking.

-I get her back to my place okay, usually holding hands, and usually
not having been able to do a tonguedown because until then there was
no private place to do it. She is not horny.

-I get her to sit down next to me, and I try to make moves, and
she freezes up/freaks out and leaves.

PROBLEM: her state is all wrong when I get her back to my place, and
I can't change it to something that it useful, so that she doesn't
freak when I try to touch/kiss her...