From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

Rio comments on TokyoPUA's story!

From Sun Oct  8 01:58:58 2000
Subject: Re: HB Small Mouth PU - Persistance
Lines: 245

Tokyo PUA,
This is a damn wicked report - this is cool shit. Not only that, but it's
given me clues as to where my approaches have been fucking up recently - AND
given me a few other insights and refreshed my memory about shit that I
learnt with my current LTR (funny how too much sex makes you sloppy)

My comments follow:

I did a PU on a 19
year old HB college student in the train the other night and got her home
phone number.  It was easy cause she was reading Tokyo Classified, and I
asked her about it. I was really confident, and in only 2 stops got her to
really dig me.  In fact, when I asked her why she had studied English, she
said "So I could meet a guy like you!"  The only problem is finding time to
meet her again before I leave.

Rio -> If that isn't a clear signal for an eventual fuck I don't know what

The PU I did on HB Small Mouth was not planned either, I just saw her
walking back home around my place at midnight, and somehow knew that despite
my frazled appearance after 2 hours of Jujitsu practice and carrying 40
pounds of luggage, I could do the PU on her.  My opening line was "I like
your hair" which I knew was lame and she must have heard often, but hey,
thats the price of using the 3 second rule sometimes.

Rio -> I still think it was OK. This is a shy chick I take it. Had it been a
10 I don't think you could have got away with this. What it did was
IMMEDIATELY suggest to her that you are doing a pickup. Since she was shy -
her immediate reaction is to be scared, but at the same time excited. Here I
think she will shut down and let you do the PU - If her inital reaction
doesn't put you off (which it didn't). My problem is that I have been put
off by this in the past and let my game fall to bits.

Right near my house in a dark alley at midnight on her way home!  She told
me later (post lay) that she was scared at first, but I had a really relaxed
attitude so she got comfortable with me afterwards.

Rio -> Initially she knew where you were doing a PU, and she threw controls
over to you. Here your persistance paid off. Her shutting down didn't
distract you.

 Been out there a lot since last February, maybe 10 times or so.  I guess
predominantly I go with a wing, but sometimes felt it screwed up my game.
Of course, my wings didnt know anything about seduction a la ASF, thats
probably why.  Of course, neither did I till June... I know Im much better
at street PU when alone though, thats for sure!  OTOH, when I went out to
clubs with you and Rio, I think my game was really improved and I was
learning all the time.

Rio -> I think wings are great to motive you and help psyche you up. And if
they know what they are doing they can handle shit, blocking chicks, and
take an educated critical perspective that we missed ourselves during a PU.
But yeah, sometimes wings get in the way if they don't know what they are
doing. Going with you, TPUA, is cool.
For example -> I started a PU on two chicks in a bar and I told noticed that
the body language of the chicks was contradictory - so TPUA suggested we do
a takeaway (plus he didn't like the chicks either) so he suggested we bail.
Turned out to be a good move considering the chicks turned out to be female
players as we found out later (maybe I can develop some rapport on that for
next time........  nah).
Anyway I scored a free bean cake.

BTW, I have heard that someplace called club Earth near hamamatucho has
really hot babes, (bitch shield too, but who cares, right;-), so you guys
might want to check that out.  3000 Yen cover charge.  May be the new
alternative to Fura?

Rio-> Throw any bitch my way. Shy girls are perhaps too easy (and not good
in bed either until trained).

PU of HB Small:  happened in a dark alley shortcut to my house at midnight,
I approached carrying a 30 pound backpack on one shoulder and a 10 pound
bucket of protein powder in the other, and said, “Excuse me, your hair is
really beautiful.”  She reacted favorably and said thanks, but kept
walking, slightly faster.

Rio - > In fact, just saying "hi" gets an immediate smile with shy chicks -
and then all of a sudden the chick starts looking down at herself all
uncomfortable. I have done enough C&B now on shy chicks to predict this
reaction. Actually I got out again last night and bet my friend 100 yen that
all I had to do is say "hi" and then not follow it up with anything for her
to smile and then go awry and not follow up with anything - not even a "hi"
back. She looked like a shy chick just from looking at her. I won the bet
Thing is, she was sitting around waiting for someone to talk to her, cause
she left quickly after one drink. She must have been pissed I didn't bother
to try anything (she wasn't that good looking - shit I'm too picky)
Point proven.

She seemed young, so I asked if she was a
student.  She said no, I asked what she does.  She said she works for a
cable company, I fluff talked about watching TV.  She asked what I do.  I
said I know its late but you should have coffee or tea with me at Jonathans
restaurant nearby.  She said no, so I said, OK, how do we meet again.  She
said give me your number and I said, “Ah, but I know women, if I give you
my number you will get nervous and never call.”  She said “No, that wont
happen I promise.”  I knew I didn’t have enough rapport or anything to
believe that, so really what I was just doing was stalling till I could set
up a firm date.

Rio - > How you handled this after was good shit. This kind of negative
reaction has been putting me off my approaches recently and staling me out.
It was like when doing my LTR - I had to be persistant trying to fuck
her..... like.. take the hands away and try again a little later. I feel
this is exactly the same kind of thing here too except in the inital stages
of the PU. You were persistant and that's why you kept shit going. She shut
down and let you do the PU after the hair comment, so it was all up to you
to handle things - including her resistance.
She did show some interest in that she actually asked you something - so
that would have been some encouragement to keep going.

I got a pen and wrote my number and at this point we are standing on the
corner near my place.  I play on Japanese cuteness and write my name with
hearts by it.  (None of this is stuff I would be able to do in the US.)

Rio - > But shy chicks love it. This is as subtle as they want to know that
you aren't going to go into LJBF. Shit, some of them have the nerve to ask
if you have a girlfriend. If that isn't a giveaway to let us do the work
until the end - I don't know what is. Being this blatant is good enough for

Then I say, OK, when are we going to meet.  Its sort of a way to pace the
ongoing reality now that she has my number,its a logical extension.  The
number is just a formality to me, I want to set up the date.  After some
negotiation, I get a date set up for 6 PM Tuesday, her day off.  I had given
her alternatives between my place and eating in Tachikawa nearby (but both
already had the presuppostion that we are meeting for a date, so I don’t
care which she chooses).

Rio -> Again, just getting to the point here and you aren't even phased that
she rejected Johnathan's the first time to try again. Maybe she just doesn't
like Johnathan's?
All the presuppostitions helped well to gently FORCE her into an encounter -
so to recap again:- she has given control to you in PU - you have now
handled her resistance for her.

Anyway, we keep talking.  I get that she never has met a foreigner, that she
likes Richard Gere, cause he is “Shibui”. (=quiet, simple, sober,
tasteful, austere, parsimonious, etc.)  I asked her about her ideal man
while doing the (SP) thing.  She really accessed a lot and I was awakening
her creative centers.

Rio - > And the cool thing is that you can get away with being direct about
ideal guys cause she is the one in the passive position because of her
shyness. It's all up to you to do the work, the patterning, the
transitioning. She isn't going to do crap from now on......

 I touched her a lot on the arm to anchor the good
feelings.   She said she really was too ideal, but that her ideal guy was
like her father, sweet and nice.  I asked if she wanted a guy who made her
feel safe, and she said yes.  I compared our hand sizes and got kino,
remarked at how small her hands were, that my big hands could protect her.

Rio - > And you could have said "...and you know what they say about guys
who have big hands!"..... just kidding! ;P Just my GM out of control..... I
wouldn't have said that to a shy chick....

Complemented her smile and said that it seems like her eyes smile too and
she said that she is often told that.  She said I was skillful at
complementing and I said that I really meant it.

Rio - > These shy girls really enjoy complements - whereas we're told to
avoid them in most situations. They love anything romanitc - and she knew
beforehand that she was in for a proper seduction.

I mirrored her body positions a lot and this seemed to have a good effect.
She seemed really into it and wasn’t trying too hard to get away despite it
being after midnight and having to work the next day, only bringing up the
time when I did.  She was rubbing her earlobe, and later playing with her
ponytail in a really sexy way, all with the doggy dinner bowl look.
I also showed kanji ability and had her write her name, and demonstrated how
we could study English together, all using the Zaurus.  (BTW, Did you buy
one yet, Maniac? A useful tool in many ways.  You can turn it into a
portable digital photo album too, albeit poor quality...) She liked that.

Rio - > Nice entertainment routine.

At one point she asked what was in the bucket, I said protein powder and she
said “nomitai!” and I said “5 fun dake areba, nomeru yo.”(If you have 5
minutes I can give you a taste).

Rio - > Oh, you are IN with that "nomitai!" comment......

But she refused to go to my apartment and
I didn’t press the issue, I just reconfirmed our fun date on Tuesday, and
gave her a kiss goodnight, then took off.

Rio - >........but she still needs her resistance controlled, and probably
the mental preparation for the fuck after a night out like that.

Ok now a few more personal discoveries from me (I think I'm writing this to
get my ideas out of my head to consolidate them for my own personal
benefit - cause I'm not up there with you guys quite yet)

I have heard that SS patterns are no magic bullet, but my best seductions
are not when I've tried patterning per se, but spoke to the chick as if I
was doing a presentation in front of a live audience. Sounds strange, but I
have so much confidence when I frame it like that. Everything comes out
naturally, and yet powerfully.

In fact, I hate that comment that "Patterns are not magic bullets". If we
avoid using patterns, and avoid talking persuasively, and avoid even TRYING,
then we are fighting without a possible weapon that MAY be effective.
Perhaps patterns are not MAGIC bullets, but they are STILL bullets. Maybe
where patterns have failed is when a PUA has failed some basic PUA rules -
in which case the patterns look pussy cause he is a still supplicating wussy
with no balls, and/or letting his game fall apart.

Perhaps you don't need the NLP as much, but being able to talk about
something passionately that I like is what boosts my confidence and any
self-designed pattern I pull after that flows natural.

Next point :- Persistance. I've been thinking about this all day. Like the
chick in the bar last night, and the shy chick I worked on on Saturday. I
forgot a basic rule - men lead, women follow. Thing is, unlike women back
home, J-girls generally do NOT help you out in the slightest to helping you
root them. Times I have got laid is where persistance paid off. Just reading
TokyoPUA's report reminded me of that. My approaches fucked it when I
started the conversation, tested for interest, and when I got a big fat zero
response - I lamed out and bailed.

Then I remember what my LTR said about how she got attracted to me - and it
wasn't at first sight. She was attracted to my persistance - and my boldness
to just kiss her and control her afterwards. Then reading yaritai's post
about the chick who crossed her arms for the whole date until he dropped the
"I want to kiss you" line. This kind of shit. I have seen it a lot now. My
friend and I had an interesting discussion last night at the bar anyway. He
is a really good speaker, doesn't know patterns, but he speaks to me like he
is giving a speech to an audience. He was saying that the depth of a
relationship is based on how much shit we will put up with and deal with
from the other person, and still love them.

Chicks want that kind of deep connection, thus the shit. But if we don't
call it, and persist trying to bang them - shit goes nowhere.

Now the contradiction and my question : -  How far do we go with our
persistance, but at the same time not come off as being horny and desperate,
or at least some kind of stalker - and yet still maintain the attitude of "I
don't need you, you need me"

Something to consider.

Comments gentlemen?