Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Important things to know about guys – vs – chicks thinking

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
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Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 74
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
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Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
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X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me $280.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 74
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » think

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using SOI’s as a way to tease/attract chicks!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Using SOI's (statements of intent) as a tease to attract a chick!


From: Jonathan Ashton 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 07:04:08 GMT

In article ,
> For example, if we were to drop an SOI on the chick, and then
> IMMEDIATELY follow up with a negative command - WE control the
> flirting so that the chick then has to work for US.
>
> So we can say things like "I want to kiss you"
> And then control the flirting by pulling away again with some reverse
> commands :-
> "BUT I don't really know anything about you, and I haven't known you
> for very long, and I need to feel love first"
> Sounds like the stuff that chicks tell us, right? Well chicks say it
> to flirt, as opposed to meaning what they say!

Omigod!  Rio, this is an awesome post!  Brilliant!  Genius!

"I was thinking about kissing you, but you'd probably slobber too
  much."
"I'd love to take you home, but I know you'd get all clingy."
"I'm just trying to guess if you're any good in bed.  Too bad you're
  too young/weird/conservative for me."
"I bet you'd love the way I do neck massages.  You've been acting up
  too much to deserve one, though."

This is so EASY!  Anyone can think these up on the spot!  There's no
need to think up ambiguous sentences or come up with just the right
innuendo.  Just make a Statement of Intentions, then let her know what
SHE has to offer to make it happen - by telling her that you won't do
it because she's not up to par!  I love it!  I will try it out ASAP!

Howcome I've never seen this idea explained before?  In retrospect,
it's clear that MrSex4uNYC and Mystery do similar stuff, but I've
never seen the dynamic explained this way before.  Ross talks about
setting challenges, but it's always seemed like such a delicate art
to say just the right thing at just the right time.

But this is so easy!  Thank you, Rio.

Ash


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

PU from Eyes Wide Shut!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



PU from 'Eyes Wide Shut' !



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:22:33 GMT

Eyes wide Shut's Marriage Blaster PU!
001229

Below is a short clipping of the text from the
pickup scene from "Eyes Wide Shut"..  it
had some very good scenes (the PU below, the fuckparty
at the end), but otherwise, a pretty shitty
movie.

This PU is good, because it is totally believable, and
contains an excellent "sorry I am married" blaster which
would work in real life PU.

This PU, or a similar one could be constructed along
the same framework and be effective. I found the routine
to be excellent, and very 'silver tongued'. It is very
good and worth renting the movie just to see this scene,
the tonality and body language of the guy is also excellent.
Watch it, and see.

--
The scene is at the beginning of the film,
an evening private party in a rich guys
house. A guy (married?) goes up to the chick (married,
but her husband is away with other people right now), at
the drinks/punch bowl table, and does the following:

guy: [takes her wine glass and drinks from it at table]
her: I think that's my glass
guy: oh, .. I am absolutely certain of it
guy [finishes her glass]
guy: my name is xxxx (cant spell it).. I am hungarian
her: my name is alice.. I am american
guy: delighted to meet you alex
guy: did you ever read the latin poet ovid. on the art of
     love
her: didnt he wind up all by himself crying his eyes out in
 someplace with a very bad climate
guy: but he also had a good time first... a very good time
guy: are you here with anyone tonight?
her: with my husband
guy: oh how sad.. but I am sure he is the sort of man who
 wouldnt mind if we ...danced

[now dancing]

guy: what do you do alice
her: well, at the moment I am looking for a job
guy/her:.... [fluff about finding a job]

...
guy: dont you think one of the charms of marraige is that
 it makes deception a necessity for both parties
her: laugh
guy: may I ask why a beautiful woman, who can have any man
 in this room, wants to be... married?
her: why wouldnt you?
guy: is it as bad as that?
her: as good as that!

....

guy: you know why women used to get married, dont you?
her: why dont you tell me?
guy: it was the only way they could lose their virginity.. and
 be free to do what they wanted..with other men... the ones
 they really wanted
her: fascinating..

...

THE END

---

The structure of this I think is excellent. The poet opener
(Ovid?) is also excellent to break state.. beats "so is this
your first time here?" shit openers ;-). And I think the
marriage blaster at the end of the PU is fucking excellent
(not that I am married, but if I were...). Would work for
'you have a GF' too I figure..!

Comments/opinions anyone?

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX