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Important things to know about guys – vs – chicks thinking

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
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Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

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Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

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a lot of eye contact, and smiles, Buy Synthroid in canada, as I sat next to the dance floor, and
made eye contact. We smiled a few times to each other, and after a few
minutes of this, I called her over, where can i buy Synthroid online. It turns out she had been abroad, and
could speak a bit of english, which was good. I asked her how often
she comes to this club and she said a couple times a month (a good
sign, if she came here every day, or every week, it is a good sign that
then she is a pro looking for money, as I learned from Bangkok), Buy Synthroid No Prescription. Synthroid price, Miss
Saigon is 19, and her dad was a Chinese national, so she had a very
exotic look for a vietnamese girl, tall, very thin legs, where can i find Synthroid online, but still shapely
in the right places. I didn't buy her a drink (no supplication), but
rather just asked her to dance. Purchase Synthroid online no prescription, On the dance floor, I did the exact same routine I used to bag Miss T-Back in Tokyo about 3 weeks ago (lots of eye contact, getting
kino..etc..etc). She was very game on, and the results were the same as
Miss Tback, buy cheap Synthroid no rx. Buy Synthroid No Prescription, I danced closer to her, kept eye contact, and she didn't
break it (excellent), meaning, it was time to go in for the kill. I go in
and kiss her. We dance more, and I try to put my tongue down her
througt. Synthroid samples, She doesn't really like this (turns out she was afraid of the
KGB thought police who since snuck into the club, but she sniffed
out..see below).

We go to the bar and sit down, we hold hands, and talk, buy Synthroid online cod, and I ask her
if she likes me. She says yes, she likes my eyes (lots of girls say that
for some reason, maybe because they are blue, which you never see in
this part of the world), Buy Synthroid No Prescription. I tell her about my experience in Vietnam, and
how the country has so far really impressed me (which it has, Buy Synthroid no prescription, it is not
really a communist country anymore, and is growing very fast
economically). I touch her, and we kiss a bit more, but she is nervous, Synthroid over the counter.
Vietnam KGB police are now in the club, and they frown upon the
natives interacting with the foriegners like this.

I suggest we go someplace more private. Buy Synthroid No Prescription, Her eyes light up, and the
thrill of adventure begins (I think she was as much into the thrill of all
this as I was, which probably made the lay easier, and more thrilling). Where can i buy cheapest Synthroid online, First, we got to lose the KGB, so we head out of the bar (seperately),
and meet up nearby at a preagreed place (ah, the tribulations of a
communist dictatorship), online buy Synthroid without a prescription. Behind a building, I tongue her down totally,
and she is completely game on. Synthroid for sale, I suggest we go back to my hotel. She
tells me we cant, that natives and foreigners cannot be in the same
room at night together, and that there are police raids. We find
another hotel not far, where they don't know me or her, Buy Synthroid No Prescription. We make a
deal with the hotel guy, buy Synthroid online no prescription, to rent "her" a room in the hotel, (anyways, its
cheap), Rx free Synthroid, so then her national ID card is on file downstairs as her own
room, and everything looks "cool" if the cops come. We then both
proceed to my room together, lock the door, and make love the rest of
the night and morning while listening at the door now and then, australia, uk, us, usa, canada, mexico, india, craiglist, ebay, paypal. It was
exciting, scary and passionate as we spend the whole night together, in
a place and situation, Buy generic Synthroid, that we should not be.
Sometimes we hear sounds, so we quiet down, and then wait, and then
continue, Synthroid pharmacy. Buy Synthroid No Prescription, She was wonderful, and didn't want any money, or anything like that,
just wants to see me again, the next time I come to Saigon, as I had to
leave in a few hours to Hanoi in the morning. A night of passion, and
romance I will never forget. And I do plan to see Miss Saigon on my
next trip to Vietnam. Order Synthroid online c.o.d, A truly wonderful, very bright and very mature
beautiful young lady.. I will be back.

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
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Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
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X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
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<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
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Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
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Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

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Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

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Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
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<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
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Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991206103946.07960.00000028@ng-fh1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:66148
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452
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Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 21:15:08 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.8
X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:15:08 EST
Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net)
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:67212
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
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>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
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Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai

3p Lay Report! Maniac does a street PU and threesome!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[020915]

Maniac does a street PU and threesome!  3p report!

I dont much write lay reports anymore, as they are all pretty much the same, and
formula based. Now the research is on to more interesting things.. like 
threesomes!!

Recently, I got together my first 'unplanned' threesome, with 2 chicks that
had never done one. Here is the report, and how I got it set up to happen!

The 2 chicks are Bibabe (she likes girls), and HBExciteMe (she likes anything
as long as it is on edge and exciting, be it bar fights, or inpulsive 
threesome with her acquantances she doesn't know real well).

I had known Bibabe for a few months, and already fucked her with a standard
new Maniac Plan lay routine. During a drinking pubnight I was debriefing her
and kidded her about a cute girl nearby, and that she should 'try her out',
as 'only a woman really knows how to treat a woman'. 

This is a test I used to see if she was bi/bicurious. She joked back 'maybe
I should take the chance!'. This is good (even as a joke), as non bi-curious
chicks will just react (blech! I like guys). Later that evening, the 'target'
went to the bathroom, and I suggested to Bibabe, 'here is your chance', go
see if she wants to go out with us after.    .. and Bibabe just got up, and
followed her in the bathroom! (no hesitation, anything!). Unfortunately,
when she got there, she stalled out, and didn't know what to say/how to
execute the PU.

Still, this was good, because it told me that: 
1)I got a bi-curious chick
2)She may have no experience, and is an AFC when it comes to PU.. but 
 she is not afraid, and is willing to try stuff on command... very very good,
 as I will be able to work with this.

I debriefed her some more after this later that evening, and she did say
that she was a bit curious about cute girls, but had never tried anything.
I jokingly suggested that I will help her get one, and she jokingly agreed.
(using 'jokes' in this way is a good way to 'test' people for unusual
preferences, as they can always back down and say they were 'joking' if they
feel threatened, but will play with the 'joke' otherwise. 

Ie. if you ask a Bi-curios chick directly 'Are you Bi', she will get defensive,
and say 'no', but if you kid about it the way I did above, if she goes
along with it, then it is her way of communicating (in a less risky way),
that she is possibly interested in what you are proposing. 

Then I told her my story about my ex-gf who was bi, and how she was so cool
and fun. That made it clear to her, that I accept such people, and that she
can feel more comfortable around me to talk about such things..

Same goes for talks about kink, group sex...whatever, use the same method
above if you want to get a chick into those topics/test for interest.

So, that evening, I told her, that I would do the PU for her, and to watch
me. So I go to the target, tell her that my GF and I like her, and want
her to come out with us for a pint after this party is over. The target says 
'OK'! The party ends, and we go up as a group, but the target's AFC friends
pull her away. The target was looking for reassurance from Bibabe (and not
just me, since it is more secure to have it coming from the girl, not the guy),
but Bibabe, being an AFC, failed to do this, so she left.

--
Fast forward to another pubnight a month later, different groups of friends.
We have some pints, and I joke to Bibabe, that 'I need to teach you how
to pick up a woman, because you ladies always have it just easy, and just
wait for the guys to come along, and do all the work'. Bibabe then asks me,
ok, teach me then. 

I then go into ASF/AFC basic training (ie. like what you see in my nMP/lay
reports on pickupguide.com) with her, and tell her what to do/not do. She
is very fascinated by it all.

Another month goes by, I meet her some times to fuck her, and joke about
getting her a nice girl, and she goes along with the joking. 

Then last week, another pubnight and dance at a nightclub in down, and I
run into Bibabe by chance in the place with her friends. We dance for a bit,
and I decide that I want to fuck Bibabe, so I extract her from there (no 
problem, since I already fucked her before).

We are then walking down the street to get a bite, and she runs into a
chick (HBExciteme) on the sidewalk that she sort of knew from the nightclub,
one of her friend's friends or something. She is very cute and sexy.

First I thought...shit.. now we are stuck with her fucking friend all night,
and I can't get bibabe home...   that thought lasted about.... 10 seconds..
then I thought.... THREESOME!!!!

From my chats with Bibabe, I knew that she would be willing to try something,
but probably AFC out, so I would need to direct everything so it wouldn't
fuck up. Thats ok though, I am a PUA, have experience, and had been working
on a threesome/3p PU plan (still very experimental), so no problem.

Also, this situation was better than the last time with the other target, 
because there were no other friends around to distract us, just me, Bibabe, and 
HBExciteme as the target we would gang up on to try to take home and fuck
together.

The basic plan was:
-get the 3 of us together in an Izakaya/beer pub, sitting down, in a way
 that the 2 chicks can pay attention to each other, and I am close enough to
 direct it.
-get HBExciteme to feel comfortable around Bibabe
-get them both to my place
-fuck them both

The place where we were was Roppongi (part of Tokyo), which these days,
has been totally infested by these illegal migrant Nigerian guys that 
always 'attack' single guys walking down the sidewalk, and try to drag 
them into expensive hostess clubs. So I first kid about this, and ask
each girl to 'protect me from them', and hold each of my hands out to
each girl.. each girl (Bibabe did first, and then social proof kicked in,
and HBExciteme took the other one) takes one of my hands. So now Kino has
already started, only 1 minute into the PU..cool. 

This is a trend the whole night actually, using one girl you already laid 
(Bibabe) as social proof/trendsetting to make the other girl (HBExciteme) 
do what I want, since now psychologically, it is 2 against 1, so social
pressure forces come much more into play against the target (especially
when one of us doing the PU is also a chick ('good cop' effect), than if it is
just you alone, against a target chick.

So the next thing I did was take them to a quiet beerpub (it is now 1am
now) in Roppongi, where I was. Usually, when I am one on one, I choose places
with counters, but this time, since there are 3, I wanted a table, so that
the 2 chicks could see each other, and I could direct it/be in earshot of both
at the same time. So a counter wouldn't work in this case.

Once we got in there, I sat down next to Bibabe (so I could hold her, feel
her up/get her excited, and also tell her what to do/say to the target, 
HBExciteme), and had HBExciteme sit directly facing Bibabe the other side
of the small table. 

From here, some regular nMP stuff on HBExciteme (job, tired, like beer?).

Then I ask into the ear of Bibabe (sitting next to me), "so do you like her?".
She whispers back "yes". I reply to her, "OK, just do what I tell you", and 
I start the PU.

Now what I do, is pay most of my facial/verbal attention to HBExcite me,
across the table, while visibly kino'ing Bibabe (holding her leg.., being
very physically close, tonguedowns to bibabe in front HBExciteme) 
The goal is to make HBExciteme a bit physically aroused and jealous
by the show in front of her, and then letting her release that, by allowing
her to give/express attention (to Bibabe) at a moment I decide later on when
I want to close the PU.

Now I begin... After a few 'cheers' of beer, and kino'ing/KC'ing Bibabe
I get things deeper with HBExciteme by asking her (see nMP for this and
other routines, on my www.pickupguide.com homepage) "So tell me HBExciteme,
are you the type who likes romance, or the type who likes excitement?"
(the goal here, is to ask a double bind question, with the answer I want/expect
to be the last choice).

As expected, HBExciteme replies "excitment, definately excitement". Ok,
so far so good (I turn and KC Bibabe in front of her). Now I play the
strawberry game with HBexciteme (see webpage for it). Her answers are
fence: 1 meter
# of berries: don't care at all/not so much
feeling to farmer: nothing special/don't care

This was interesting, as it wasn't really any response at all to the game.
In retrospect, this is what HBExciteme was like though overall. Not very
reactive/proactive to anything, but on the other hand, anything that might
happen (ie. getting fucked later that night), is ok, and whatever happens
just happens and that is OK with her.

Now I take the hand of HBExciteme (it was on the table in front of me),
and remark on how small and gentle it is, and the nailcolor (red), and
how it matched those of Bibabe (was also red). Then I put both their hands
together, to compare each other's color and size. HBExciteme didn't retract
at this point, which was a good sign.

Now I decide to let them get to know each other a bit without me, and get
comfortable in that girls only way. So I say "I am going to the bathroom,
but will be back, you two wait here for me", and then I take each of their
hands, and put Bibabes hand on top of HBExciteme's hand on the table, and
leave them that way when I get up to go to the bathroom.

I get back, and Bibabe is still holding HBExciteme's hand while talking to
her... very very good sign!

I sit down, and then seperate their hands, and take each girls hand in each
of my hands, so I am holding both of them.. still no bad reaction from
HBExciteme (now she is happy to not be getting left out of all the kino
I figure, and probably is happy that Bibabe is sharing me with her so she
doesn't feel like the '3rd wheel' anymore)... so far so good.

I ask Bibabe again (confirm), "you like her"? Bibabe: "yes". ... good too.

I now ask HBExciteme "so what is your type of guy"? She tells me a guy
who leads, and otherwise OK. Sounds good. At that point, HBExciteme takes
her leg, and puts it on top of mine under the table (while I am still
holding the hands of both girls).

This my friends, is the closing sign! HBExciteme, accepts Bibabe, and wants
to fuck me, and Bibabe is also in on it. Cool!

I say "lets go" (I *do not* say where we are going, and neither girl asks me).

We get down to the street (I take hand of each girl again, in the street, 
like before), and I flag a taxi. I still don't say where we are going, and
neither girl asks (well, Bibabe knows what will happen, and HBExciteme
seems to have figured it out without anyone telling her explicitly ;-)  ).

We get in the taxi, and I sit in the front seat, and put the 2 girls in the
back. I expect.. (and am not disappointed from how I saw Bibabe with HBExciteme
in the pub) Bibabe to start to kino and feelup HBExciteme in the back of the
cab. Needless to say I am not disappointed, I trained Bibabe well for this
mission in the past month.. that taxi driver must have been surprised by
what he saw in the mirror though!

It was a nice sight to watch that all the way home, and the taxi driver,
like a good mannered Japanese staff to his clients, feigned ignorance of the
whole thing ;-), courteous and restrained right to the end of the trip.

We get to my house and I worry that if a freakout will happen, it will be
here, and that HBExciteme will insist to stay in the living room, or something.

So what I did, is take HBExciteme's hand (and not Bibabe), so she gets the
special attention (for now), and take her up to my room. Bibabe is behind
(and in on the scam), and says nothing/looks calm to HBExciteme. I leave
HBExciteme in the room by herself, and I go down to Bibabe downstairs.

At this point, HBexciteme might not know if we were going to stay there,
so that way she cannot freak out, that was the intent of doing it this way.

A couple minutes later, Bibabe and I come up. We are both happy to see
that rather than sleep in all her clothes, HBExciteme has stripped down to
her Tback Thong bikini, and is lying down on the futon waiting for us;
just relaxed.  Wow! That was very cool..

Bibabe and I strip down, and get in the futon next to her (arent tatami
rooms great! room for all!).

I start touching/feeling up HBExciteme a bit, and she doesnt react bad at all,
just she lets me do it, and makes erotic sounds as I reach into her
private places, and she starts shrieking and wriggling all around.

Now here though, is where things got a little edgy.. because this made
Bibabe a bit jealous. Bibabe is cute, but HBExciteme is definately a
babe, very sexy, and attractive, especially wearing only that Tback Thong.
Bibabe somehow, was uncomfortable about this, and was getting a bit irritated
when I gave attention to HBExciteme.

So I stopped playing with HBExciteme, and fucked Bibabe silly instead, with 
HBExciteme next to me (she didn't mind this at all, it turns out).

After that was done, I hugged them both, and played with them both a bit.
Bibabe still got a bit irritated when I would give attention to HBExciteme,
and then decided she wasn't interested in HBExciteme as much anymore.
I told Bibabe that I wanted to fuck HBExciteme, and that she was really
sexy looking (Bibabe agreed, and that I think also irritated her a bit
it turns out). 

I suggested to Bibabe that I got her this nice woman for the evening, and
she is game on, so why doesn't she try her out. But she didn't want to
anymore, besides what she did to her in the cab, and when we first got in
the house.

HBExciteme, heard all this whispering, but was just relaxed about it, lying 
on the bed with her thong.

Bibabe finally said that I should fuck HBExciteme, so I did in the morning.
She was a good fuck, very sexy..babe. (I didn't know her name though,
still, as it was Bibabe's friend's friend, and I had forgot the name she
said in the bar). SHe works out or something, very firm body, no fat, sexy
and curvy in all the right places.... babe.

I could touch HBExciteme/do her anywhere, no resistance, just
shaking and erotic sounds as I did her. The only thing is HBExciteme didn't 
want me to kiss her on the lips, but anything else licking/feeling up/fucking 
related was totally OK and uninhibited... odd..

In the morning, Bibabe left as she had an appointment someplace, gave me a 
tonguedown in front of HBExciteme in the tatami bedroom, and went home.

I then played with and fucked HBExciteme some more, just the two of us, 
and then took her to the train station after.

n
I debriefed and asked what HBExciteme felt about the evening, and she said that 
she liked it, had never done that, but felt bad that Bibabe was a bit
jealous, that it seem I am her boyfriend. But it was OK. Somehow she was very
calm about it all, very surreal, but it was cool though..

I took her to the trainstation, and then never saw her again. I didn't ask
her email/phone, and she didn't ask mine (adds to the mystery of it I
suppose ;-) )!.

--

The next day I talked to Bibabe, and she was a bit nervous, about what the
reaction of HBExciteme was, and more, if she might tell her common friends
what happened with the 3 of us. I told her that it was very unlikely, and that
it was just the secret of the 3 of us. That calmed her down alot. Then I 
asked Bibabe what she thought of it all, and said she liked it, though it was 
the first time, and she was nervous about it all, and who might find out, which 
was why she wasn't as liberal at playing with HBExciteme as she actually 
wanted to be the previous night.

I told her that we would go out another night, and pickup another girlfriend
off the street to playwith for another adventure. She said she is looking
very forward to that evening! Fucking awesome! . .


--

What I learned:

-It helps alot to prepare one of the chicks ahead of time with the plan,
so she can help you execute it (or at least not fuck it up). This is crucial,
and adds a large degree of control to the situation that is otherwise absent,
and in the end, greatly improves the success rate.

-Like a regular PU, it is also helpful to have a PU plan ready, with steps
 (kino, tables (not counters) and seating arrangements thought out, the 
 games to use/gimmicks (nigerians, hands and the bathroom..etc), that can
 be used to advance things. This preparation was very valuable.

-Social proof effects are very powerful in 3p situations, where one of the
 chicks is in on the scam. HBexciteme I dont think is bi (just anything is
 OK), and had it been just me, I dont think I could have laid her, but with
 the social proof/peer pressure, things like getting her home/into the bedroom
 almost naked became trivially easy. Social proof effects will work way against
 you if you didn't prepare one of the chicks, but will work way in your 
 favor if you did prepare one of the chicks... so use that to your advantage!

-Jokes as tests: ie. the bi jokes above I used to scope out Bibabe when
 I met her.. important to determinate what a chick will likely do/not do.

-Jealousy: I remember TPUA had a similar 3P experience a while back, and
 jealousy between the chicks was also a bit of an issue. I need to do the
 set up for this better with the other 'hunter' chick next time I execute the
 plan.

So there you go!

THE END!

Opinion/comments welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Buy Synthroid No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Synthroid No Prescription, From: Maniac High's Seduction Website

Http://www.pickupguide.com

Report by Maniac High;

Lay Report; Seducing Miss Saigon; dodging the KGB

My South East Asian trip is over now and I am back home in Tokyo
once again. Here's the highlights. Comments welcome, as usual
guys...

The first stop was Thailand, Synthroid from canadian pharmacy. Not much seduction possible there,
everyone will lay you (the 7/11 chick, or literally anyone except maybe
the royal family, Purchase Synthroid online, but..everyone wants money.). Use a good condom,
aids there, and you can have sex with whoever you want if you pay your
way (around $12), Buy Synthroid No Prescription. From the seduction standpoint, very very dull though. SoThailand didn't really interest me, so I rearranged my trip to spend
more time in Vietnam, order Synthroid no prescription, hoping the chicks there weren't so trashy andwere seducable without money. Turns out it was the right move..

As for Hanoi..too poor, so same problem as Thailand, everyone will
lay you, but they will want money, yelch..

Maniac High

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » situation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Awesome thoughts about guy thinking -vs- girl thinking!

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Chicks expecting a fuck?  re: mrsex4unyc, zipjack
Lines: 31
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 24 Nov 1999 10:42:20 GMT
References: 
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Message-ID: <19991124054220.15788.00001405@ng-cm1.aol.com>
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:64822
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

>I am a bit curious as to more the dynamics that are going
>on inside a chick's head in such situations, which is why I brought
>it up..

that's the point of THIS WHOLE SHIT maniac.

there ARE NO DYNAMICS to a woman's head.

a woman follows her emotions.

you CREATE her emotions and she will naturally DESIRE to act on them (or 
haveYOU act on her)

you can not THINK that their minds work analytically like ours do.  it's 
a TOTALLY different process.

she stands in front of the tv when the football game is on.  we think 
"THIS BITCH HAS GOT TO GET OUT FROM IN FRONT OF THE TV!"

you don't bring her flowers.  she doesn't think "this guy needs to go 
out and get me some flowers" she thinks "HE DOSEN'T LOVE ME ANY MORE... 
IS IT MY WEIGHT?... IS HE CHEATING..."

see?  it doesn't make any sense because SHE gets an EMOTION from actions 
and words, then she acts on that, whereas WE act on the facts of the 
situation.

that's why she can't tell you about processes.  some things you did made 
her naturally feel like being kissed then feel like being felt up then 
feel like being fucked.  she never LOGICALLY assumed that you were going 
to do it, but when you did it, she liked it and was confortable enough 
with you NOT to stop you.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Dec  7 00:53:44 1999
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Advice please...date ends and time for kiss
Lines: 21
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Date: 06 Dec 1999 15:39:46 GMT
References: <82gh3h$cnu@nnrp1.deja.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
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>> when I feel like feeling you up... you get felt up
>> when I feel like kissing you, you kiss me back
>> when I want head you suck my dick... venus, does that make sense to
>you?
>
>Do you give this to the chick in these words?

HAHAHAHA nope!  :)

too mechanical.  too many FACTS... chicks can't process facts... they 
need emotions...

what you do is QUOTE them stories about girls that denied you and got 
canned immediately... mid-date or whatever... they get the picture so that when 
it's time for some action, they know to start packing their fucking bags if 
they don't get with you... they KNOW there is no way that you are going to 
waste any more time with them instead of being with a sexy chick...

I must say though I am mulling over outfoxer's comments and intend on 
replying to them when I get a clear fix on what I think.  his stance totally 
contradicts mine on this issue and I can't see right now which one is the best for 
me.

From zip@jack.com Thu Dec 16 22:06:57 1999
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: be prepared to walk
Message-ID: <38590256.1448246@news.empireone.net>
References: <38531550.706813@news.empireone.net> 
<19991212111356.23749.00000239@ng-ft1.aol.com> 
<3855EEB1.28CC8A2E@emjco.com> <3856d926.802175@news.empireone.net> 
<385760A1.95E8EFCE@pop.dnvr.uswest.net>
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X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care 

X-Trace: monger.newsread.com 945292508 204.192.122.8 (Wed, 15 Dec 1999 
16:15:08 EST)
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On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 02:34:25 -0700, Jake Thomson
 wrote:

. A woman would be happy being friends
>with a mannequin if it had an engaging personality and met
>her emotional needs. And then, if and only if, they like the
>personality, they might switch that object into a sexual
>being and perceive it as he truly is.

Yes, its scary to percieve men as sexual beings unless thtere's no
connection. This explains why assholes get women easily....its not
threatening.
>
>Most heterosexual men can't or won't do that. We perceive
>women as sexual beings first and may or may not get around
>to noticing and engaging their personality. 

It is incredible to me that its taken me so long to truly realize
this.

We get our
>primary emotional payoff from sex and a secondary payoff
>from companionship. We need sex to validate us and allow us
>to experience loving feelings. Women are wired in the
>opposite fashion. They need loving feelings to validate them
>and allow them to experience sex.

Well, we are paranoid in general about sex because many many men trash
and dehamanize women who have sex with the,. if you guys really enjoy
sex try being cool to the women who sex you.

 Neither way, by itself is
>good, and both can be degrading, exploitative and
>dehumanizing. 

....another thing I never realized....WOW!
I never thought a guy could consider himself "used" in this way and I
had no idea it was so degrading. I don't think most women realize
this, and its a good thing because we'd never talk to any of you
anymore!

>
>IMO, the reason the guys turn off and give you the cold
>shoulder is because you're negating their humanity. They
>eventually realize that they're just objects with a
>personality to be exploited for entertainment purposes, and
>they, rightfully, get a bit miffed about it.

If a woman is faithful to one man is she negating the humanity of all
other men she meets thereafter? I don't think so.
Anyway, the attitude above describes the way women feel about sex.

 They're putting
>out and meeting your emotional needs without getting the
>emotional payoff that's meaningful to them.  Let me ask you
>Kate, how long and how hard would you work for somebody who
>refused to pay you for your time and effort in a currency
>that had meaning to you?

Not long. The thing is, there needs to be some middle ground.
You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate

From: "Vincent Runza" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: sponsibility
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:26:34 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 

Dear Alex,
I'm glad I un-killfiled Kate - check this out:

"You guys have to understand that sex WREAKS HAVOC on a woman's brain
and body. I don't think its the same high calibur experience for men
and they can forget more easily. Asking a woman to take significant
emotional risks just to have sex with you first off is alot more than
you may realize.

Kate"

And:

"You guys talk about chick logic all the time. Its really all about
women's total denial that they are going to be involved in a sexual
situation at all. Basically, if a woman faces up to the physical
mental and social implications of having sex she'll end up hiding in
her room for 30 years, so she denies it and then "it just kind of
happenned".
Now, i for one, never took this approach, but for vigilance I paid in
paranoia. its just not as easy for women. Its never "just sex"."

Got it?
Regards,
Vince

> For some reason I was thinking a woman in her 30s wouldn't
> be afraid to let herself take the responsibility for having
> sex, but I guess they're not all like that, especially when
> it comes to first-night sex.
>
> Alex

Inside a chick’s head

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Inside a chick's head... Ms Nymph (a chick PUA)talks 
her views about seduction!





From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:05:27 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>
>So, you're an 'edge junkie', huh?

Yes, I derive my greatest pleasure from the chase and eventual capture of men I
"can't have" for one reason or another.

>  But first, you have to GO FIRST. What are your end values? "I seduce my
>doctor to get             "

I can only say I want to sleep with him...this is the ONLY man I've ever known
who I can simply think about and come...don't even have to touch myself.  So
I feel that fucking him would be the ultimate sexual outlet.  I have expressed
this to him.  He seemed uncomfortable when I did and stammered that he was
"flattered."  (We are both married--I wasn't talking about love or
relationships.)  In my next encounter with him he was sure of himself--said his
oath and ethics preclude him from even considering me that way.

>office, which he will refuse. The
>doctor/patient relationship is no small obstacle to overcome.

For sure.  This was his rebuttal upon my initial inquiry.  Do you have any
advice on how to overcome this, all things being said?

> his character will be the obstacle to the very thing you
>want.

Very well said and probably very true in this situation.  It's about him and
his mind and my need to have that. Certainly not just a physical attraction
on my part.

>  While suggesting you go out and snag a few other guys instead will
>probably not appeal to you,

Working on those "consolation prizes" already but Doc remains my one sexual
fixation for now.  

Thanks, Vince
Melissa

From mgnymph@aol.com Wed Apr 12 09:06:04 2000
From: mgnymph@aol.com (MGnymph)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Almost afraid to ask...

>Why do you think surgeons and lawyers are usually reserved for
>attractive women?

I thought everyone knew this.  Doctors and lawyers, so-called "professionals"
are the types of men who can have whomever they want.  On a larger scale, look
at Hollywood. How many times do we see an ugly, rich man with a gorgeous young
woman?  Skanky rock stars with supermodels?  It's the same type of thing on a
smaller scale.  Women, typically, would sacrifice their souls for the love of a
doctor.  I think I speak on behalf of many, considering my social life thus
far.

>
>If it's that type of male you specifically go after, what is it about a
>surgeon or lawyer that attracts you so much?

I love a brilliant mind.  Even unattractive physically, a man who is ambitious
and smart is a total turnon.  Personality, too.  Knowing I can land a man who
no doubt has his "pick of the litter" makes me feel powerful and sexy.

Thanks for your tips, but I'm happily married.  My husband is the best and
allows me to explore my sexuality--my wants and desires--in an open and honest
relationship.  So finding a man isn't an issue with me--seducing one is. 
Thanks.
Melissa

A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Proper attitude for doing dance club pick ups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Proper attitude when doing dance club pickups!

From slidewguy@remove-aol.com Sun Feb 13 01:09:30 2000
From: "whoisthis19" 
Subject: Re: Dance Club Advice needed
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

On 10 Feb 2000 16:18:04 GMT googamooga@aol.com (Googamooga) wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the dance club scenes and seduction.  What could I say or
> do to approach women, to dance with them and then take them home?  I have seen
> men who just approach women who are dancing with a friend or alone, and just
> dance without asking for any permission from the girl.  Now when I try it all I
> ever get is a dirty look, what am I doing wrong?  Any dance club advice would
> be helpful.

Often they know the guy already but this should give you a clue as to
what to do.

Approach a woman in ANY situation and act as if she is already your
girlfriend.  That she is very familiar with you and you are over the
shyness and uncertainty of how to act.

What I mean is.  When your girlfriend is out on the floor dancing with
some gals and you want to dance with her, you go right up to her and do
the deal... right?   Do not behave any differantly with woman you don't
know.  Approach woman AS IF they are already are your girlfriend.  If
you dont have this confidence - you CANT do the approach - it will
bomb.  If you do have this mind set, it doesnt matter what the
situation is or who the woman is,  you will be successful in the
initial approach.

The reason for this is due to anchors set by previous boyfriends.  At
some time or another they have had pleasurable experiances with men who
were relaxed being around them.  Men who were thier boyfriends and
ACTED as such.  When you do an approach with the mind set you are
already her boyfriend you will act in the way she is most accustomed to
and wont think your strange.

SO what I'm saying is:  Get in there and have fun!!!  Not just fun. 
ALOT of fun!!!!!!  That's all there really is to it.

greg1

> 
> thanks in advance

Did you sleep with yourself or... did you turn yourself down because
 you was too easy.
--

Using Rapport in a (mall) PU

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



MrSex4unyc explains how he would use rapport to do a mall PU!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Dec  1 23:52:18 2000
Subject: Re: WARNING on relationship expectations - Saved by Our world
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 28 Nov 2000 21:40:50 GMT

<< Just as a hypothetical situation ... I meet a hot babe. I say 
Hi. She's carrying a box of newly purchased shoes. We're at the 
mall. This amount of information is enough for me to concoct 
something suitably positive, state-building, and seductive, if I 
have a chance to sit down with a slide-rule and calculator, full 
logarithmic tables, and have forty-five minutes of uninterrupted 
time to use the third differential extrapolation, or at least to 
make an integral approximation according to the parabolic 
formula.

How do you do it RIGHT THEN AND THERE, fast enough? Just sit and 
stare and not say much? Or use non-committals like "how did you 
feel about that? pretty good, hunh?" Or are you so good, that 
you can always come up with a sentence that moves her in the 
right direction?

I thank you for your brilliant insights ... >>

given:
A) the chick has new shoes
B) you are standing in the mall
C) she is attractive
D) she stopped to allow you to talk to her when you greeted her

how was her day?
where did she buy the shoes?
what brand are they?
does she like that brand?  does she always buy shoes by them?
what does she like about their shoes?
what does she like about the shoes that she just bought?
what FIRST ATTRACTED her to the shoes? (VAK)
is she happy with her purchase?
what is she going to wear them with?
where is she going to wear them?
does she own something that she plans to match them to?
does she like shoes more than boots?
what brand sneakers does she like?
(if she owns sneakers) did you buy them for a sport?
do you work out?
what gym?
where is that located?
I really like this restaurant in that area, it's called...
they have the best...
have you ever tried... (food at the restaurant)
oh it's great -> describe using either V, A or K elicited above
(get her drooling)
{talk about how it feels sliding into her mouth}
{talk about how the flavor runs all over her tongue and down her throat (BJ)}
{talk up the experience until SHE says she would like to have that experience}
so... you feel you would like to go there with me sometime? (embedded command)
how can we get in contact with each other?

now... you will notice how far I got ONLY focusing on the shoes she bought. 
also, you can SEE how many tangents I COULD have taken off of virtually ANY of
the statements I made in that series.  the plan is NOT to make a plan.. the
plan is to PLAY IT WHERE IT LAYS.  if you say something that takes her out of
the state you want her in or makes it weaker, talk about the opposite OR go
back a level to the thing you were talking about BEFORE that was getting her
where you needed her to go.

also, formhandle was absolutely correct.  you have to DISAPPEAR in order to do
this.  you have to be inside her and thinking as she is thinking.  all that
shit about she is so good looking and you want to fuck her doggie-style and all
that other shit has to GO if you are going to be effective at judging her state
and how deep she is getting and when you are doing better and when you are
fucking up.

the idea is NOT to FORCE your way to inviting her to your house to suck your
dick.  the idea is to GAIN RAPPORT so that she believes that YOUR ideas are the
same as HER ideas.  pace her until you can lead her because she BELIEVES in
what you are saying.  THAT'S the goal.   once she BELIEVES in you, you can tell
her ANYTHING :)

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai