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If you think chicks are always so sweet…

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
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"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
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"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!


----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
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Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me $280.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » point

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the Archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com

If you think that girls are all sweet, innocent and will
never take advantage of a guy, then check out the
link below, and story below!

From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sun Apr  2 06:05:41 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Re: Link to Pro-Matriarchy Site - you gotta see this one!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

>To the Group:
>Found this link in alt.romance:
>http://www.geocities.com/ladymisato/. Get this - the title is "Real Women
>Don't do Housework!" The site proposes Matriarchy as the modern solution
>to...well, women's troubles with men (AFC's).     

----

From jerisnow@mindspring.com Wed Apr 12 08:56:10 2000
From: Jeri Snowdon 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Hey Vince and other
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:03:48 -0400

devils wrote:
> 
> I'm in my late 30's but look like and behave like I'm in my mid to late
> 20's.  I can hit on these young babes but I hesitate for fear of later
> rejecting me after they know my real age.  Should I pretend
> that I'm in my twenties and not bring it up?  Or should I get a fake ID
> and just show it to skirt the issue?  The real problem may come
> if they want me to meet their parents if it ever comes to that.  Any
> suggestions?
> Joe DEVILS
> --
> 

When I was in college, my sorority sisters and I used to to this all the
time... We'd get an older guy to buy us drinks, and give us compliments all
night long, then at the end of the night, after he indicated he wanted to
"get to know" one f us me better, we'd tell him that we thought he was too
old for us.. :0 

The games women play... Yes, you all could say that I had a Bitch Shield,
and that I "tested" men, but until Jack came along, I'd never met my match. 

Fellas, let me tell you something from a woman's point of view, a girl will
tell you all kinds of things just to see if you're up to her standards. We
like a guy who can think on his feet quickly enough to tell us that he's
not buying the test.

For you, Joe: Don't worry about her telling you that she thinks you're too
old. If she says that, then all you need worry about is getting a gal who
doesn't think that you're to old. 

-- 
         Jeri S.
---------------------------
   Teachers are special
  They open up the world

Don’t let her know she got you till after you lay her!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Why not to let a chick know she's captured your heart
until AFTER you lay her!



From book_guy@yahoo.com Sun Nov  5 07:42:33 2000
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Another newbie & dangerous URL
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 20:17:22 GMT

aegis77@my-deja.com wrote in <8u1plf$qmc@nnrp1.deja.com>:

>http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/1813/treatise.html


This thing has one excellent point:

>So, the instinctive goal of female conjugal behavior is 
>more man's hearts, nice and different. After a man's 
>heart is captured, a woman can lose any active interest 
>in him, just continue keeping him for her collection, 
>meanwhile seducing the others. 
      
Mostly, this is evolutionary biology. But the point here, is 
something most evolutionary psycho/bio folks have NOT MADE. The 
usual line in evo. science is that a female wants a long-term 
relationship to aid in the nurturing of the baby. This guy is 
saying, she doesn't so much want one LTR / sucker, as that she 
wants the knowledge of CAPTURING MEN'S HEARTS. She's just as 
much of a stray cat as men are, but she's after HIS EMOTIONS. 
Hence her interest in getting a harem of supplicating AFCs to 
cater to her. Their supplication proves to her that she has 
captured his heart ... hence, no need for her to continue to be 
interested.

It's a clear indication, that "received wisdom" about 
evolutionary psychology is sometimes not very applicable to 
real-life circumstances. All that shit about women wanting LTRs 
had always rubbed me the wrong way, and now that I've seen this 
newer better point of view, I get the concept. I had known 
plenty of HBs who liked sex and liked sleeping around, just not 
with me. Now I get it. Or, at least, at little teeny bit more of 
it.


-- 

Book Guy
book_guy at yahoo dot com
"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun 
Tzu

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Using innuendo to do a pickup

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Using Innuendo in PU!

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Flirtation briskly crushed
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 01:47:31 GMT

In article <3A3ABF23.226088D4@anymsnaddress.com>,
  Bill  wrote:
> Greg, I don't wish to sound totally clueless, but could you tell us
how you
> get to such a high degree of explicitness in a phone call intended to
> hook-up with someone you just met?
>
> Clearly, a guy has to set a sexual frame to the phone call he makes,
or
> steer it in that general direction, or she, but how do you find out
what she
> likes to such a level of detail?

God I gotta go but I'll put a few details in.  I used to have a
girlfriend many years ago who was an excellant flirt and great with
inuendo.  I modeled her and added to it over the many years.  What I do
is TESTS.  I test the waters.  Just off the top of my head here's some
innuendos.

Me:  Hi, its' me.
HER:  Oh hi!
ME:  Your not doing somehting right now are you?
HER:  wha?
ME:  You know... DOIN... SOMETHING?

At this point she'll either say she doesnt have her vibrator out right
now which is cool... or she'll be shocked and resist or... she wont
have a clue.  No matter what all my tests are meant as jokes.  I prob
the waters.  Test her out.  See if she is a sexual woman.  If not...
NEXT!!!  Typically I screen em on first meeting.  I'll only get the
number if I know she is my type.

Either way I save time.  I don't waste my time on woman who aren't
sexually adventurous.  In fact tonight a friend of mine was over.  Last
Saturday she had a guy over from 9 to 11 AM  then one from 1 to 4...
then a nother from 7 to 11...  hehehehe...  Not all woman are like my
friend but this is the type of woman I prefer and to all you guys who
will judge their character for sleeping around.... GEESH!!!!  Most of
the frigid gals are so boring.  I like gals who are FUN!  (Second blow
job today!)  wow!!!  I'm having a good day and I havent even gone out
sarging yet!!!

Gotta go... off to sarge... WOOO HOOO!!!
greg the gonna have fun one

>
> whoisthis19@my-deja.com wrote:
> ......
>
> > Ok so not only the movie got started but so did you.  What was your
> > mindset?  Was it:  I'm gonna do this stuff to her and it'll make her
> > horny or... I know what she wants and I'll give it to her.  You
see...
> > your shooting in the dark here.  From your phone calls and
illicitation
> > you should have gotten a clue on what to do here.  My phone calls I
> > usually find out if she likes oral, anal... ect...  I'm not kidding.
> > Obviously you just decided to guess at what to do and it didnt work.
> >
>
> ......
>
>

--
Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

Chicks who want you to get to the point!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

More reason for a 'statement of intent', chicks also want to
cut the bullshit!



From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 17:03:52 GMT

Being obvious you are open to (but not necc. want) sex!
001206

Sometimes chicks also are interested in easy sex. (yes, we
already know that). Here is an example though. .

I was debriefing karatebabe, and asking her why she decided
to have sex with me that time she came over to my place.

She said that I had made it obvious that I was looking for
sex, and she hadnt had sex for a long while. She didn't want
all the bullshit that comes before a guy having sex (dates
and shit), because to her (get this!) she says that if a
guy doesn't make it obvious he wants to fuck her, then she
thinks he isnt interested in sex at all (in other words,
chick logic, she is thinking that guys think the same way
girls do, which of course we know is not true!).

This is probably crucial in bar PUs.. (which I am
currently working on, and making a framework for)
make it look like you are offering sex, but not necc.
just want that only (or if you do, already qualify
that that is only what the girl wants (sex w/o dating bullshit
first). .ie, it is a favor for the RIGHT girl, if she measures
up.

And that is today's wisdom from karatebabe!

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

Gimmick to get chick to kiss in a club!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website
http://www.pickupguide.com


A cool way to open a chick up to kissing!

[Maniac ed. Note, after getting her to do this
a couple times, tell her "a real one this time.."
and go for the tongue down!]




Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:31:55 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.156.37.154
X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 954804715 141.156.37.154 (Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:31:55 EDT
Xref: wormhole.dimensional.com alt.seduction.fast:78925
X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/)

"Kiss It" (Point to one cheek)

"Kiss It"  (Point to the other cheek)

"One more time" (Point to your lips)

I've had more success with Craig's "kiss the cheek" method in clubs and
parties than any other!  It's the Ultimate Kino Trick in my opinion.  It's
just too easy...  Right after you get her really laughing or Smiling GO
FOR THE KISS ON THE CHEEK.  Point to one of your cheeks and say "Kiss It"!
I swear there's like a 99% chance that she will.  You never get denied if
you pull it right after a funny smart ass comment.

The funny thing is....  once she's kissed you on the cheek once.  She'll
never deny you another.  Every so often just playfully demand another kiss
on the cheek.  It's just too much fun.  Last Saturday I went bowling with 5
girls and after my first strike I playfully high-fived everyone and then
made all the girls give me a kiss on the cheek.  I then did this EVERYTIME I
got a spare or a strike... it just kept getting funner and funner...  They
were all getting into it.... and then eventually I started making out with
one of the Cuties inbetween frames.

Pure Genius I tell you.

With Love,
DC Guy


From vassago3NOvaSPAM@mailcity.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:17:53 2000
X-Originating-Host: 216.244.24.144
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 26
From: Craig  
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Im always glad to be of service!  Im usually a bit sneaker and
turn my head during the second cheek kiss...Then I say..."Well
now you might as well give me a real one!"  It seems like you and
I have very similar styles, so do me a favor...Try out other
favorite Kiss close.  It takes bigger balls but its pretty damn
funny.  Bullshit with her for a few minutes and then say
"So...You wanna to make out?" Say it with a straight face and
have a little excitement in your voice!  She will probably say on
eof three things.

 "Here?" Counter with, "No I figure we could walk somewhere a
little more romantic!"

"I dont know" and you say, "Lets find out! kiss

"Right now?"  And you say, "No way!  In five minutes!"    Then
come back in five minutes, show her your watch, then silently
take her hand and lead her to a bedroom (or couch if your in a
club)!

Of course this is field tested.  I recommend it and use it.  If
she says anything other than a flat out NO then you're in.
Report back!

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----

From danieljludwigNOdaSPAM@yahoo.com.invalid Tue Apr  4 08:18:43 2000
X-Originating-Host: 63.28.31.230
Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here
Subject: Re: Craig is a Genius!!!
Lines: 20
From: Danielson 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

I used the kiss my cheek method on a chic that I was talking to
on the phone, and never met before, when she finally met me at a
casino. This was two weeks ago. I made all sorts of games out of
it. If we see an old lady at a slot machine (every 2 seconds)
you have to kiss me. If we see someone win you have to kiss me.
If she wanted a chip I would hold it out and when she reached
for it I pulled it back and pointed to my cheek (and eventually
mouth). And they WERE HER CHIPS!!  She loved it and was giggling
every time.  This led to tongue down in a hallway (until
security came and broke it up) and eventually a lay in her hotel
room that she paid for. (I am so cheap...I only brought and
spent 5 bucks the whole night!!!). I used it to warm her up to
me at the start and just kept it going. It caused us to be
completely comfortable around each other despite having just
met. A great method, I agree.

I-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi-yi.
Fo-cus Dan-iel-son
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Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Another good dancefloor pickup style!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Jonnyjewel talks about his dancefloor pickup strategy!




From jonnyjewel@my-deja.com Sun Oct  8 02:37:20 2000
From: jonnyjewel@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Club PU tips Anyone?
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 02:51:01 GMT

toecutter has a lot of good advice I would just like to add a few tips.  The
dance floor is my saving grace for sex.  With out it I might still be a
virgin. Well maybe not.  It sounds like you are doing well at clubs and you
are close to turning the corner and learning how to get the dance floor PU. 
First off, toecutter is right it is a numbers game 100%. I will tell you how
I work a floor.  First off you are there to dance a have a good time, so look
like it.  Smile like you just won a million dollars and let yourself go.  Ok
your relaxed, now it's time to hunt.  What you are looking for a group of
girls together or one by herself. The one by her self is easy just dance up
to her with a open gesture and motion that you would like to dance if she
doesn't she in most cases will look away.  Ok, these groups of women 4 or
more usually have have a certain make up.  There is the hot one, the ugly
one, the not as fashionable one, and the not as hot as the hot one.  The "not
as hot as the hot one" is your target.	This girl is competing with the hot
girl and most of the time will love you for your advance.  Just step up
behind her and smile and rub your peck on her shoulder once gently.  DO NOT
TOUCH ANY PART OF HER BODY WITH YOURS.	Girls love a guys with balls, I mean
it.  She will look behind at you then look back at her friends for approval. 
Stay clam.  She will now do one of three things, back into you, step forward,
or nothing.  If she steps forward, turn right around its over, look some
where else.  If she does nothing try again, be careful she might be a bitch. 
If she gets mad it is her fault, you just wanted to see if she'd like to
dance she could have been courtious and moved away or said no.	But this one
backed into you.  Your chances of a but grind from just about any girl are
about 50%  Just ease into her and have a good time. After about three songs
of hard griding it is time to get go for broke.  Spin her around and grind
away, but she might not want to do a front grind.  If she doesn't, at the end
of the song thank her get, her name, and move on.  This can come in handy
later like a street or parking lot PU.	But you got the fount grind.  VERY
IMPORTANT!!!  If you are grinding with a girl it is your main goal to protect
her, try as hard as you can to keep other people from bumping into her.  Put
out an arm or move both of you so you are the one getting bumped.  I love the
look on girls faces when you do this, they eat it up.  After another two
songs it is time for the kiss.	Start by getting lots of eye contact, if she
not looking at you sorry no kiss for you.  But she is, start touching her
face with yours, forhead to forehead nose to nose.  Go in a couple of times
for a kiss but turn away at the last second.  And then go for it!  But DON'T
shove your tonge down her througt.  Take it easy big boy.  Do this a few
times and then stop, unless she keeps it going.  When I get this far I
usually stick with the chick untill one of us has to go.  At that point thank
her for the night and say something like, "I would like see you again."  Even
if you didn't get the kiss still # close.  If she gives you a number one
thing girls love is if you memorize it, untill she is out of sight and then
right it down, it makes you look smart. I don't ever try to pull a girls off
the dance floor, Why!  Why do you need to? Your grinding, maybe kissing what
more do you want!  She is attracted to you why mess it up by talking.  You
can run all that SS stuff if you get a date.  This brings up another point.
Unless she want to don't talk.	I ususally ask her name and where she's from.
 I leave it at that.  Yes, lost of times these girls have asshole boy friends
so they give you a fake numbers, or just they get scared. The only time you
will get a girl back to your place for the one nighter is if she wants to,
follow her lead. Other points to know for the dance floor PU is that that it
looks good for you to be seen dancing with a lots of women you might start by
dancing with a friend to get you started.  Yes, it is very competitive. So
wear your best club clothes, you might want to invest a little bit of money
in clothes just for clubing. Never ask for a dance, they always say no for
some reason.  Just so you know the girls that come up to you and dance lots
of times are the girls with asshole boy friends but still # close just in
case.  I usually make one to two passes on the dance floor per hour.  One
thing to look for is girls that you have seen dancing with different guys. 
If I don't get a dance I get off the dance floor. You look like a looser if
you are dancing around trying to get girls to dance with you. One mistake I
have made is even if she is liking the fact that your hands are all over her
body, don't move her hand to your dick.  Most importantly, you have never
wasted you time grinding with a good looking girl.

Rock/scissors paper to get kiss close!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com




Ken uses 4 questions and rock/scissors paper opener that leads to a kiss close!



From x0730@aol.com Mon Oct 23 09:52:01 2000
From: x0730@aol.com (X0730)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Stupid, fun games to get kino in clubs, some questions
Lines: 85
Date: 17 Oct 2000 16:25:25 GMT

Here is what I have been using:

1)  4 magic questions.  I posted this a few days ago.  Usually when you tell a
chick what her responses mean you will get a good response.  I take that
opportunity to step up the kino.
2)  Rock+Paper+Scissors to get a kiss.  I used this a few days ago in a club to
get mad kino.  I can't believe this fucking worked.  I picked out the hottest
HB in the whole club and went from "hi" to making out in 5 minutes.  I am not a
master PUA or great looking guy, but I am starting to get the hang of it. 
Anyway, this is basically how I used this:

We were on the dance floor fluffing and I ask her the 4 magic questions.  She
didn't really give me anything to work with so I then try to get her to play
the questions game with me.  She can't think of anything to ask so I tell her I
want to play another game, one she will surely like.  Note: At this point we
were facing each other and I had one hand on each side of her. 

Me:  Ok, the game is rock, paper, scissors and the loser has to kiss the
winner.
HB:  I can't do that...I'm a good girl(playfully)
Me:  Ok...just kiss on the cheek then
HB:  Ok

I lose the 1st, she loses the 2nd, I lose the third one.  When I kiss her on
the cheek she turns her head a little so that I almost hit her lips.  She may
have even been trying to kiss me on the lips.  I took that as a green light so
I say:

Me: Ok, real kiss now.
HB:  I'm a good girl.  I don't kiss guys I know that well.
Me:  Well, it's a good thing we have gotten to know each other...you have
ALREADY kissed me.

Then I kissed her and that led to a night of making out and groping everywhere.
 Throughout the evening she would keep saying stuff like, "You're so bad!  Are
you always like this?" and "You like to move fast don't you?"

How should I respond to that? She is obviously enjoying my "badness"

Also, I wanted to get her out of the club and fuck her that night, but I didn't
quite know how to do it.  She would say things like, "I don't think I should be
alone with you." so I know that she wanted me, but she was with a group of
friends, and didn't want to seem like a slut.

3)  Someone posted this a while ago as the "Toronto Shooter"  Basically you
take a shot of tequilla, you lick the girls neck, put salt on it, and put a
lime in her mouth.  You then lick her neck, take the shot, and slowly suck the
lime out of her mouth.  I used this in a club, but I reversed it.  I needed to
drive home so I didn't want to drink, but the HB that was with wanted a shot of
tequilla so I told her that I was going to show her a fun way to take the
tequilla.  I poured some salt in my hand and told her to "Lick my neck."  She
did so w/o hesitation(wow, I didn't expect this, but I was very commanding)
then I put the salt on my neck and the lime in my mouth.  She seemed to enjoy
this and took her time with the salt+lime.  Next time I see her I should put
the salt on my cock.

I'm curious to learn what other games you PUA's play to have fun+get more kino.
 I still can't believe that the rock, paper, scissors thing worked.  I think it
had to do with her not playing along with my first two games(rejection then
retreat, Cialdini) and then committment/consistency after we had already been
kissing on the cheek. We must have looked so silly playing that game in the
middle of the dance floor.  I bet I looked pretty cool a few minutes later
making out with her though!

I have only been clubbing for a little over a week(turned 21 not too long ago)
so I am not sure how to continue the seduction from #2.  I am going to see her
on Thurs, but I am not sure what route to take.  Would it be too drastic of a
change to start doing value/elicitation, SS?  I did that with a girl that I met
in a club last week.  The club PU was almost all kino, we got together the next
day and then I started value/elicitation, patterning and it seemed to work. 
She gave me head and then took me out to dinner.  She is from out of town, but
is coming to see me this weekend.  To reward her for making the effort to see
me, I rented one of those "Romantic Getaway" hotel rooms, with a whirlpool, etc
for Friday night.  It is pretty extravagant and cost me 0.  I don't care
about the $$$, but do you guys think this is too much?  Is this supplication? 
My reasoning for getting the room is because I think it would be a lot of fun,
and ironically, even though I am loaded, I still live with my parents so I
wanted a way for us to be alone together.  I am NOT doing this to buy her
affections.  Actually, I am not sure how to walk the fine line between getting
a girl to really want to be with me, yet not fall in love, get obsessed, and
try to get me to committ.  How do you guys handle this?

Ken

The ‘tickle’ transition to sex!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



The 'tickle' transition to sex!


From: "yaritai" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Identyfing Her Desires 1 (Making Your First Move Easy) - The Tickle Fight
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:21:32 +0900

Tickle fights:

In my experience, the tickle fight is a situation where there is implied
permission/desire for you to make a move.

If she just giggles and moves away and basically refuses to get into it,
then there's a possibility that she's not interested, but NOT NECESSARILY!
If that happens, you'll have to do other things to find out. But if she
turns around and starts tickling you back, then she most definitely wants
you!

Girl tickles you back (more than just a poke) => The girl is definitely
interested in you.
Girl doesn't tickle you back => The girl may or may not want you.

Do NOT make the mistake of reversing this. For example, the following logic
is WRONG:

Girl is interested => She will tickle you. (No, she may not.)

And never assume: Girl doesn't tickle back => She's not interested. (It's
only possible.)

Just remember that if she gets into a tickle fight, she DOES want you.
Forget the rest.
She is ready to be physical with you. Now, how do you go from tickle to
kiss? Easy as hell!!! Ha ha ha. I now laugh (in a very sad kind of ironic
way) at just how stupid I was in the past.

If you can in any way at all get into a tickle fight near a bed or large
carpeted area, do so.

Tickle her a bit. If she's ticklish, she'll laugh and grab her sides a bit.
(If she's not ticklish, she may not react at all. Keep trying for a bit, but
if she still doesn't react, it's no fun and won't work, so stop or tease her
about being "insensitive".) Continue unless you get a very bad reaction. If
you try a few times and she continues to retreat, stop and try later, or try
something else. Most likely, she will start tickling back and it'll escalate
into a full fledged tickle-fight.

This is exactly what you want to happen.

Not only that, but she has now, without using any words, ASKED you to kiss
her!!!

Let her tickle you back a bit, tickle her, etc. and do this for a little
while. Then, after a short while, you reach your arms around her and hold
her hands and arms with one hand, and you tickle her with the other.
Congratulations, you are now hugging her. Not only that, but she is laughing
and loving every minute of it. Can you say "anchor"? ;-)

Now, this is where you need a bed (if at all possible) or carpeted floor.
After a bit of this, if you really get her tickled, her knees will buckle,
and she will fall to the floor. (Don't let go, you caveman!) Gently fall
with her and lower her to the floor and relent just a little. Give her some
space and time to recover a bit and catch her breath. (If she doesn't fall
to the floor/bed, see below for.)

Now, the moment of truth. If she comes back at you in any way whatsoever,
you grab her, throw her down on the bed or floor (gently, of course), but
while she's on her back, you then climb aboard and hold her wrists down. If,
at this point, she's still smiling and enjoying the fight, you are so in, it
's not funny. If she loses the smile then, I don't know. (It's never
happened to me).

If you're lucky, she'll reach up with her feet to get your head. This means
you have to bring your head all the way down, almost to the point where you
are kissing her. Don't kiss her yet though. Let the sexual tension build, a
LITTLE. Tease her. Blow in her face a bit. Hold both hands with one, and
tickle very lightly with the other. Stick your finger in her ear. Rub her
nose with yours. Here, you can even kiss her on the cheek, in a
playful/non-sexual way. It doesn't matter! Act 10 years old. Laugh. Tell her
she's sooooooo cute when she's helpless. It's fun! Just be playful, and do
NOT hurt her.

The point is to make her feel good, while increasing frustration and sexual
tension. Then, after a bit of this, change your expression to a more sexual,
serious one, (she'll probably do the same), gaze into her eyes and bring
your face close to hers. Then, kiss her. She gave you permission 20 minutes
ago!

This, my friends, is pure magic. Hasn't failed me yet.

Comments/opinions?

yaritai