Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » ejected

ASF reader comments on above story

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Buy Ultram No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Ultram No Prescription, From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Learning what to do when a chick is really not into you.

[Maniac note: in addition to the 3 no's another
tack is to use ALOT of force talk, buy cheapest Ultram, Order Ultram from mexican pharmacy, basicallyto convince the chick that she is notworthy as a woman if she doesn't get with theprogram, and that she will be blown out as punishmentif she doesn't]

From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: ]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram price. Where can i find Ultram online, Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:33 GMT

]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram samples. Purchase Ultram online no prescription, 001212

Today I had HB geek over at my place. Although I didntget a freak out, Ultram over the counter, Buy Ultram no prescription, she was very frigid, so once I realizedwhat was going on, order Ultram no prescription, Online buying Ultram, and that I was making no/negativeprogress, I immediately ejected her for being uncooperative, buy Ultram from mexico, Ultram from canadian pharmacy, and frigid to any approach I was making. Fuckshe was cold, Buy Ultram No Prescription. I was half expecting this though becauseshe had been over here once before, rx free Ultram, Australia, uk, us, usa, canada, mexico, india, craiglist, ebay, paypal, and did the samething. Following NYC's advice, buy Ultram online no prescription, Buy Ultram online cod, I gave her one more chance,and then instant vaporization if she doesnt get withthe program after I explain the program to her (which Idid the last time she was here, buy no prescription Ultram online, Where can i order Ultram without prescription, and it (mistakenly) seemedshe was clear about).

After that I thought what I could do better in such asituation., where can i buy Ultram online. Ultram pharmacy, Then I came up with the '3 no's rule'. Buy Ultram No Prescription, When a chick is freezing up (and is looking like freak-outmaterial), one thing I found can work is to stop allphysical contact, and start story telling, and qualifyingher feelings. Stories about romance, order Ultram, Where can i buy cheapest Ultram online, security, and allthat, online buy Ultram without a prescription, Buy Ultram in canada, with normal '1st date' start level kino.
Do not stop with stories and qualifying untilshe has responded strong negatives to your qualificationquestions at least 3 times (without any intervening progressat all), purchase Ultram online. Buy cheap Ultram no rx, If that happens, then she becomes a candidate for immediateejection from your place for being defective, order Ultram online c.o.d. Ultram for sale, Before ejectingHBGeek tonight, I should have at least attempted this, buy Ultram without a prescription. I trieda bit, but in retrospect, it was a weak effort., Buy Ultram No Prescription. Buy generic Ultram, (thoughmy hunch is that still it wouldnt have worked.. but it mighthave, and then I might have been able to lay her).

On the other hand, a worse thing would have been to endurethe whole video and her frigidness. Doing that would have gottenme an 'F' score. Buy Ultram No Prescription, Better was immediate ejection, which is OKbut not the whole effort above, so that rates a 'C'. I feel Icould have gotten an 'A' (lay) or 'B' (good try though no lay)score, if I had done the above with her. The j-nanpa videos alsodo it this way if the chicks freeze up when arriving atthe guys place they wear her down by talking and stories ofgood feelings and all that shit, and then go for it. That seemsto work some of the time, though admittedly, this is damagecontrol territory.

So now I learned a new way to deal with this situationeven if I didn't lay HB geek, so at least it was an educationalexperience.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy.

Bagging HB Afro, the fly who shagged me!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Buy Ultram No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Ultram No Prescription, From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Learning what to do when a chick is really not into you.

From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: ]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram price. Where can i find Ultram online, Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:33 GMT

]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram samples. Purchase Ultram online no prescription, 001212

So now I learned a new way to deal with this situationeven if I didn't lay HB geek, so at least it was an educationalexperience.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy.

Bagging HB Afro, the fly who shagged me!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b9$146
$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b9$146$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » ejected

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Buy Ultram No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Ultram No Prescription, From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Learning what to do when a chick is really not into you.

From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: ]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram price. Where can i find Ultram online, Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:33 GMT

]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram samples. Purchase Ultram online no prescription, 001212

So now I learned a new way to deal with this situationeven if I didn't lay HB geek, so at least it was an educationalexperience.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy.

Bagging HB Afro, the fly who shagged me!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Ultram No Prescription, From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Learning what to do when a chick is really not into you.

From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: ]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram price. Where can i find Ultram online, Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:33 GMT

]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram samples. Purchase Ultram online no prescription, 001212

So now I learned a new way to deal with this situationeven if I didn't lay HB geek, so at least it was an educationalexperience.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » ejected

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website: 

http://www.pickupguide.com 

Many excellent followups to the Psychicbabe re-lay report!
Mrsex4unyc, RJ..etc..etc.

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>The immediate gold to take care of this, is to now make the
>relationship very high stakes for her. I can do this because
>I know that she is into me (from what she said at the dinner),
>so the idea is to play it that if she doesnt do her job as a
>chick.. she will lose EVERYTHING as far as I am concern.
>Ok, that is the plan, here we go:

plan or no plan, essentially, you are telling her the truth.  on a long-enough
timeline, the survival rate for EVERYONE is ZERO.  sooner or later, everyone
you love will either leave you or die.  chicks don't seem to believe in this,
though it is the absolute truth.  they think that they can relate to you
FOREVER, REGARDLESS of what they do or how they act.  you are telling her HOW
she can REMAIN with you and what is going to get her EJECTED.  even though it
takes a long time, so it doesn't SEEM like this... this is what has happened to
EVERY chick's relationship that has gone away.  EVENTUALLY, she was not
fulfilling her womanly duties and her man left her for a   chick (younger,
sexier, richer, swallower...)  EVEN if she IS fulfilling her duties, if her man
like it from another chick MORE, she loses out either in a PERCENTAGE of her
benefits or she gets DUMPED and loses ALL of her benefits.  you are merely
explaining this to her and telling her what she needs to do IF she wants to be
with you... which you have already determined.  you are SELLING, and now you
are screening her to see if she is QUALIFIED and ABLE to buy.

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
>in relationship. 

I am getting to the point where I am going to do this.  I never do this with
chicks because I morph into whatever THEY are looking for and hook them that
way.  the thing for me is that being 10 months in with MLTR, she has REALLY
learned how to please me and the time I spend TEACHING her has become minimal
and the time I spend ENJOYING her is increasing :)  it is getting tougher and
tougher for other chicks to get my attention, because anything LESS than what I
have already is BULLSHIT to me.  the time I am spending talking to chicks is
mostly eliciting values and breaking their perceptions... just for fun :)  I
know IMMEDIATELY if I want sex from a chick, and if I don't, she is IMMEDIATELY
LJBF and I use her for practice and NEXT her at the end of the conversation.

I am seriously going to consider moving to a "demonstration of value -> SOI"
model, just because I have lost my patience with LISTENING to these bitches
talking about shit that really doesn't mean anything.  I know I am going to
NEXT them ANYWAY as soon as I realize they can't compete with MLTR, so why
listen to their shit FIRST?  I may as well let them know how great I am and
let them know what kind of woman I am willing to accept, and let them continue
from there.  there is also the cognitive dissonance issue of them KNOWING that
I am going to dump them if they are not sexy and CONTINUING to talk to me and
get to know me.  the more they talk to me, the more I hook them into
interacting with me.  the more they get hooked, the greater the PAIN OF
SEPERATION (credit: RJ) when they eventually get EJECTED.  since they KNOW
ahead of time what will get them ejected and they are still talking, they are
either planning to get in line OR setting themselves up for pain.  either way,
after SOI and their acceptance of the terms, there will have to be some sort of
TEST of their compliance.  even listening to what they have to say after SOI
counts as a REWARD for their entering into a "relationship" with me.  hmm... I
will consider this more.

>I go on to tell her that other girls I know also
>like me, ask me out alot, (doesn't matter if it is true or not,
>but chick 'competition logic' will kick in, and it will scare
>your mark to act). 

the reason I don't use this is that MLTR is an integral part of my life.  if I
were to play this "chicks dig me" card, it would belittle the actual
relationship I have with MLTR.  the only problem with THAT is that I am
screening for MORE MLTRs :)  I don't give a fuck about ONS because I can get
laid ANY NIGHT within an hour of talking to the chick I am talking to... in the
WAY I want to with a chick that I WANT TO FUCK :)  a chick offering me ONS is
like a chick offering me a dollar bill.  I already HAVE dollar bills... what do
I want hers for?  of course, there are some chicks that are just so HOT that
you want to try them out, but barring that scenario, ONS can bring you much
more ANGUISH than the satisfaction that accompanies it... PLUS it is the SAME
SATISFACTION that I already get on a regular basis from MLTR. 

besides... it is OBVIOUS that chicks dig me because here SHE is, liking me
within 20 minutes of meeting me... what about the chicks that have experienced
me for days?  months?  years?  OH, she could only HOPE to be one of those! :)

for you, it is a good tactic though.

>Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

I lost a rap to a low-self-esteem bitch that had a couple of relationships like
this as well.  I mean, I fucked her, but I didn't get to MLTR like I wanted
because she was SCARED that she wouldn't match up to the next bitch and that I
would NEXT her for no reason, like her exes did.  I tried to tell her I wanted
her for more than that, but she wasn't emotionally healthy enough to understand
or believe me.

>Ok, now Maniac has reached her head, and I take this deeper..
>I go on to tell her that I dont want just sex, I want rocks and gold
>I can get any girl in roppongi on a Saturday night and fuck her
>(not exactly true, but she doesnt know this.. goal is just to

she KNOWS that it happened to her VERY QUICKLY.  she ASSUMES she was not the
ONLY bitch to fall for you that quickly.  it is like reverse-social-proof. 
fucking a bitch FAST makes them think you can fuck other bitches FAST.

>'confirm' her worst fears so that she acts), but its not enough for
>me. I want connection, good sex, and romance, with an intelligent
>woman, and that is why I want to date you (psychicbabe).

nice line.  this is another thing I will consider.  talking-up MLTR to them.  
I never considered this either, MAINLY because if you tell a chick what you
want her to do then you never know if she is manipulating you by being that
way, or if she arrived there NATURALLY... on her own.  interesting, LOTS of
style-change material happening right around the new year :)

>Then all of the sudden, she asks me about HBass (the chick staying
>at my place over the holidays), and freaks out about it. I tell
>her that she already knows all this, and exactly what is her point
>here?

although I am a GREAT fan of "quoting", I find that there need to be times to
engage in it and times to NOT engage in it.  this will depend on what you want
with the chick.  it is the same way you can't go from being a CHUMP to a MAN in
a chick's eyes... but you CAN go from being a MAN into a CHUMP :)  if you start
out telling a chick that you have a girlfriend AND that you fuck her, you leave
yourself open for these pot-shots whenever chicks trip the fuck out and go into
their irrational rants from out of left-field.  all a bitch needs to know is
that you are "taken" so that you manage her relationship expectations.  any
more information and she feels like you will give her ALL the information. 
where does it stop?  are you going to tell her that you are fucking her?  that
you fucked her last night?  that you fucked her an hour before coming on this
date?  that you fucked YOUR WOMAN in her ass?  that she LIKES sucking dick? 
WHERE DOES IT STOP?

I ran into this problem with a chick where my relationship to her was BASED ON
trading current sex-stories.  when I got to the point where I didn't want to
tell her any more shit, she was EXPECTING me to tell her, and I realized that
if I wasn't telling her, and she wasn't telling me, then our "relationship" was
OVER.  before that, I had not realized how much I had compromised my position
by telling her CURRENT sex-shit.  think about it, and decide on your own LIMITS
to what you are willing to tell a chick about other chicks... besides, think
about the fact that she is going to KNOW that she will end up as STORIES to
other bitches right after you fuck her.  it will make her VERY self-conscious
about whatever she does with you and that could hinder her emotional states
tremendously.

>Then she stops again, and asks me if I am fucking her (maybe I
>should have said no..., but I had already said yes to her about this
>the first time I saw her)., she asks me why.. (I tell her because
>I am seeing her! like I told you the first time! I mean what do
>you expect?!?).
>
>She then puts on her bitch face, and talks in a stern voice,
>"then call me when you break her up, that is my decision, I am
>going home.".

THIS is retarded because she ALREADY knew that you were fucking her AND she
fucked you herself.  this is another problem with bitches having information
about other bitches.  they use it against themselves.  IMO, the purpose of her
knowing you have another girl or SEVERAL other girls is so she knows where she
stands in the RACE to be your MAIN BITCH.  if you are single, she has a good
chance at being that to you.  if you are "taken" she has NO CHANCE of being
that to you.  if you are SEEING bitches, then she has to COMPETE to be your #1.
 other than THAT, I think giving information about your other bitches is a
mistake...  I have made the SAME mistake up to this point, so I am not
crisicizing :)  however, I am changing that ASAP and I think you should
consider giving out information on a N2K basis (need to know).

besides, SHE is the one that NEEDS a fuck.  if it is not coming from YOU, a guy
she has fucked ALREADY and she LIKES how you did it or she wouldn't have come
back... she has to get it from a STRANGER whose sexual skills are in question
that might tie her up, fuck her in the ass or sell her to the highest bidder. 
bitches like to FRONT a lot about having ALL these sexual choices, but with all
the 8s, 9s, and 10s I have spoken to on an honest "one of the chicks" level,
they are ALL looking to have an EXCITING time, but not REALLY be in DANGER! 
you, OTOH have pussy AT HOME IN BED WAITING FOR YOU!  the only one to lose out
if she bails... is HER!  knowing that, I would have not even entertained her
bullshit OR called her on it, letting her know that I was getting laid tonight
REGARDLESS of whether SHE fucks or not.  that would take the fucking WIND out
of her sails :)

>I tell her I am planning to break her up (which is true) later, so
>it is nothing you should worry about. 

this, my friend :)  is a COP-OUT!  it is used VERY EFFECTIVELY by married men
to keep fucking their side-bitches, but WE are way above bullshit tactics like
this.  I commend you for thinking of this "on the fly", but PLEASE, PLEASE! 
hehe  I have MUCH more respect for you as a PUA than to hear some CRAP like
this from you :)  PLEASE think of something better for the next instance of a
chick trying to BLACKMAIL you into trading in a R-E-L-A-T-I-O-N-S-H-I-P where
you are getting EVERYTHING you want from a chick... for a ONS with HER! 
HAHAHAHAHAHA  >:)

I haven't run into a chick STUPID enough to try to disrespect my MLTR for being
with me... chicks have STARTED to say she is dumb for "letting" (as if she has
ANY say in the matter) her man fuck other chicks, and I have BROKEN THEIR
FUCKING ASSES listing the benefits that SHE is getting that they will most
likely NEVER have with a man... EVER!  and CERTAINLY don't have right now, or
they would not be talking to me in a bar... they would be with THEIR OWN MAN
conducting this FANTASY RELATIONSHIP that they are professing that my MLTR
should have :)  I have NEVER run into a chick that has even TRIED to break into
my relationship with MLTR because they KNOW I mean business.  all they can do
is become ANOTHER MLTR... and after they hear the QUALIFICATIONS, they KNOW
they can't even achieve THAT... only ONS and LJBF with me.  if some bitch EVER
suggested that I break up with MLTR in order to ONS her, I would  A) laugh in
her face and  B) immediately demand an EXPLANATION of the reasons why she
thinks she can knock MLTR out of the box AND make her perform ANY AND ALL
SKILLS that she CLAIMS to be better than MLTR at IMMEDIATELY!  put up or SHUT
THE FUCK UP!  the result would be the ONS ANYWAY, and she would still be LJBF
or NEXT because MLTR is NOT about sex... it is about compatability and I
PERSONALLY could not be with some bitch that needs to knock other chicks off in
order to gain status.  I gain status by BEING MYSELF and letting bitches make
INTELLIGENT, EDUCATED decisions to be with me.  any chick that wants to be with
me had better do the same.

>she gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf, getting other girls while dating her, and how
>all guys just want sex..etc..

I would have told her "you wanna calm the fuck down?"  throwing tantrums and
making scenes are expressions of her ability to do ANYTHING in your presence. 
I personally don't tolerate that.

>Then she says.. ok, if you let me meet your GF at your house
>tonight, then I will let you have sex with me. [ha! I got her!]

ok.  thank God I happened to read the next line before I started typing this. 
I was JUST going to ask you WHY you are STILL letting her blackmail you into
fucking her... ESPECIALLY when she is the one that needs it and you don't :)

>I bounce back, and say, "what exactly makes you think I am
>desperate to have sex with you tonight?! Do you think I am
>just some stupid guy and you can manipulate me like that?
>No, you will not meet my GF, it is disrespectful to her to do
>that. You know the situation, it was clear to you from the
>beginning, and you accepted it. There is no more to talk about.
>I am not here only for sex, I can get that anywhere. Sex only
>of itself is of little value to me, I want more than that.

SWEET!  :)  break her fucking ASS maniac :)

>I then bring out the nuclear weapons! My tonality is very firm,
>and I eye fuck her, while telling her the following. First, I tell
>her that I already told her about my GF, she was clear about it
>right from the start, and she has NO excuse. Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen. So do NOT compare me to your ex. I am a
>different person, and EXCEPT better treatment than that if you
>ever want to see me again. She starts crying more, and hugging
>again.

ugh :/   fucking IDIOTS!   man, the shit some bitches put you through!  does
everyone SEE why we have to study this shit?

>I put her against wall, and tell her not to complain about me like
>I am her ex, I a am different person than he is.
>
>I tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

this is a good point.  I like to play it the other way:

ok... so now, you have told me that you want everything to be a 'perfect'
situation with a guy before making a move.  You want him to be ideal with
women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady... WHAT MAKES YOU THINK
HE WILL WANT YOU?   WHAT ARE YOU BRINGING TO THE TABLE THAT IS GOING TO MAKE A
MAN LIKE THAT CHOOSE YOU OVER ANY OTHER CHICK?

you wanna see some confusion?  you wanna see a bitch get BROKEN?  HAHAHAHA  >:)
 of course, I use this on chicks that I am just practicing on, because it
normally induces DEPRESSION, not horniness.  when they have to GO DEEP INSIDE
and dive BELOW THE SURFACE of their programming, they realize that they CAN NOT
TELL ME WHY A MAN WOULD WANT THEM!  they stall the fuck out dude :)  it's
amazing.  matter of fact, it's documented already.  look at my recent thread
with "telembe".  I let her say all this bullshit about what she wanted from a
guy in order to give up her virginity, then when she was finished talking about
what she WANTED, I asked her what she was OFFERING to a guy that was going to
give her all this committment and "love" and other bullshit and she said a
whole bunch of shit that ANY bitch can and WILL give to a man she likes.  she
might have THOUGHT she had something to offer a guy that was going to seperate
her from the pack, but she doesn't.  even GOOD PUSSY can't get a bitch any
credit because there are LOTS of bitches that can fuck and suck like pros...
elites AND sub-elites.  telembe NEVER told us what seperates her from the rest
of the bitches that might make a MAN like the one she wants even LOOK HER WAY! 
the reason is that there is NO reason! :)  bitches are programmed that MEN want
them... but they are NEVER told WHY.  the reason is that men like to FUCK and
get their dicks sucked.  they also like companionship and cooking and cleaning
and for a girl to look good on their arm so they can feel accomplished around
their buddies.  chicks THINK they are ENTITLED to a good man... but the GOOD
MEN... are picking GOOD WOMEN!  if they were SHINING like they think they are,
they would have been scooped up already and married or whatever they were
looking for because some guy would have spotted her and said "I'm not going to
let her go for ANYTHING" and she would be happy... at least according to her
programming.  OH, how I LOVE to see a bitch's face while she TRIES AND TRIES to
dig up ANY reason why a guy as great as the one she claims to want would EVER
choose her over any other bitch :)  the JOY the JOY that I feel as this POMPOUS
BITCH breaks the fuck down RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY FACE! :)  of course since I
broke her, I keep talking to her and ease her back to a decent state of being
and let her know that she can take steps to make herself into the woman that a
man would want, but she has to really KNOW HERSELF and KNOW MEN in order to
make an intelligent decision.  I am not into depressing chicks... unless they
TRULY DESERVE IT for all the depression they have caused men throughout their
tenure as FINE bitches :)  also, I have no desire to BREAK bitches and leave
them like that.  that just makes it WORSE for ALL OF US looking for FINE, yet
DECENT chicks.

>she cries, and says that is so true, that is her problem, she never
>takes the chance and loses out because she doesn't make the
>move on taken guys. Then I run my 'take chances routine' (if you take
>a chance, in the end, the result is usually good, but if you don't,
>just you get left behind, by yourself).. 

nice.  I like that one... emphasizing loss and loneliness.

>she cries more, says she
>needs to take the chance, and doesnt want to be alone.

she's done :)  nice work.  land her!

>She says she has to be careful, that all guys want just sex, and
>bitches about this for about 30 seconds.

as opposed to what?  what does she WANT guys to want?

>Now I start the 'you need me, I dont need you..you think I just want
>only sex, then you dont understand me at all.. if you think that is
>what I am only, then you do NOT deserve me.. I do no need you to go out
>with me if that is what you think I am.. I want connection, sex,
>passion, and closeness.. and if you haven't figured that out about
>me yet, then get another guy, because you dont understand me at all..

OK OK OK... you've CONVINCED me maniac :)  that's some good shit right there :)
 starting NOW, I am pitching for MLTR ONLY.  bitches that want ONS or LJBF will
get what they deserve from me... which isn't much.  I LOVE this idea of dissing
her for claiming that you are looking for ONS... or even just a "bootie-call"
type relationship :)  I love it.  I would feel so PROUD getting on her like
this.  sweet!  EXTREMELY congruent!  nice play!  this is going into my style,
starting RIGHT NOW!  :)

>I am doing this, because I know the left (logic) and right (emotions,
>passion) are fighting each other..they have been all night. Because the
>left doesn't accept the logic of the situation, but I know the right side
>dying for a shag,..she is trying to rationaize going out with a taken guy,
>but I have gotten her so excited tonight, that she needs that fuck.

THIS is the reason I never learned any of this shit until recently.  my
caveman-kino style before this involved ZERO talking.  totally kino and kissing
and PHYSICAL seduction with domineering EYE-CONTACT.  there was NO INFORMATION
for the left side to process at all.  EVERYTHING went STRAIGHT to the chick's
right side, and her left had to try to process the EMOTIONS and turn them into
a story that she could understand... in the meantime, she is PHYSICALLY falling
for the kino and wanting MORE AND MORE until we are fucking.  I never HAD to
talk to chicks before OR after fucking them because my PHYSICAL ATTACK is so
DEVASTATING!  I would just take them over PHYSICALLY and their right brains
would do ALL the work and the left would struggle to understand, but eventually
succumb to the onslaught!  ARG ARG! :)

thanks for explaining that to me :)

>As I touch her side of face, she goes doggy look, I kiss her, and she
>gets like screambabe, panting. I put leg between her, she widens, goes nuts
>totally. I ask her she likes me (in a tell her sort of way' you like me..'),
>she replies 'yes'. I say (stare her down) .. she asks "what should I do?"
>I say in a very strn fatherly voice while staring her down 4 inches from
>her head.. you will follow me..that is what you will do.. and you will do
>what I say. 'she says, 'I will'. I tongue her down more, run her crotch,
>she almost cums right there, then I take her to a love hotel (her first
>time!), no resistance what so ever.

interesting.  what just happened here?  did you somewhere dictate to her that
the terms of her being "your bitch" is that she has to sumbit to you fully? 
are you getting a verbal confirmation of that from her?  or is something else
going on... like she just plain UNDERSTANDS that you can move her to passions
that make her WANT to cum and that you are going to take her there and over the
edge?

another point... what do you guys think of foreplay on a chick.  he mentions
that she almost came right there... do you think it is good to get her to the
EDGE and leave her there so she is so horny, she will do ANYTHING for you to
make her cum, OR to give her an orgasm right there in her clothes to
demonstrate your sexual mastery over her?  personally, I am into the sexual
mastery thing because I notice a newfound RESPECT from a chick that has had
guys on top of her NAKED, fucking her for all they were worth and she never
came from it, and then I am just doing kino on her and fingering her and she
cums from just that.  do you think that making the chick cum on herself makes
her want sex MORE or want it LESS since she just got off?  take into account
that chicks are multi-orgasmic and that they feel sexier after cumming, not
DRAINED like guys.

>As I am fucking her, I am putting things in her head, like D.Shades reports.
>I tell her as she is screaming it feels deeper and deeper, closer and
>closer. She is going nuts will I am fucking her.

I need to reasearch this.  is this more right-brain, left-brain shit where her
left-brain is shut down because of the FIREWORKS that are going off in her mind
because of the sex, leaving her wide open to suggestion?  if you have any links
for this, please post.

>I stare her down, and I tell her you need me (during sex), she says yes.
>I tell her from now on you will follow me, and do what I say. She says
>'yes, I will'. I continue doing her, she says "it feels SO good, I really
>need that, I really want it, i love you inside me!".. she is fucking like a
>wild animal, loud voice, shouting and screaming, oh, I want it, give it
>to me, I want to come!

more of the same?

>Then she tells me anything is ok as long as I dont hate her..she doesnt
>want me to hate her. She wants me to hold/hug her, she cries a bit, then is
>ok again (seems to be thinking of her old bf she says). I touch her
>more, face goes totally doggy look, and finger her, she goes nuts, we start
>fucking again.

the "I don't want you to hate me" thing is very important in the D/s
relationship... not that you set this up like that, but that is the MAIN
incentive for her to follow your lead... that she does NOT want you to hate her
and CERTAINLY not to banish her.  when that is TRULY first and foremost in her
brain, she will regulate HERSELF and place herself in-line with your thinking
and what YOU want her to be.  she also won't try to blackmail you anymore
because she KNOWS it gets on your nerves and all THAT will do is get her
EJECTED sooner rather than later :)

>Her back is on the bed, and I am fucking her missionary, her legs are
>spread and wide in the air, which I am holding. I tell her "see, I control
>you, 

hehe ok... this is a little FAR-FETCHED for me at this point, but I have not
researched it yet :)  I DO like the next line though.

>I go deep in your body because it is the one way to reach you totally
>deep in your mind which no one else can do. 

interesting

>By conquering your body, I can
>conquer your mind (then I drill her a bit more after I finish the sentence so
>she goes more crazy). I play with your body because it lets me control
>your mind (then drill her some more..ha, it is like the ultimate form of
>reward hypnosis).

IS there such a thing as reward hypnosis?  links please? :)

>I ask her, so why you like me. She says she says, you are decisive and
>sometimes I am indecisive, so you make it easy for me. I want the guy
>to make it easy for me to decide what to do (important clue here Maniac!
>maybe most chicks are like this! Maybe this too is where I fucked up
>with HB Geek!)

I have heard this a lot too... only thing is that there is a lot of
RESPONSIBILITY that comes with telling a chick what to do, and if the VALUE of
owning her is not sufficient for me, I don't give a fuck WHAT she does enough
to want to lead her to a good time.

>Moral of the story.. keep your ground.. call all chick bullshit DIRECTLY.
>Make the chick risk fear losing the relationship if she doesn't capitulate
>and chances are she will back down, in spite of how it looks (and I could
>do this BECAUSE I had other choices.. another reason to be fucking
>several chicks at once). As well, it seemed that she was giving me all the
>bullshit in part because she WANTED me to call her on it, and then fuck her
good
>at the end of the night, which I obliged.

chicks give you shit-tests to find out if you are stronger than them and see
HOW you are going to control them.  chicks like the way I control them because
I NARROW their choices for them, but STILL make them choose.  they can choose
the path of ULTIMATE SATISFACTION, or they can choose the path of EJECTION and
being back on the dating scene meeting the SAME LAME GUYS every night :)

you had told her you had a girlfriend, but she seems to have NEEDED to know
that she really COULDN'T have you all to herself and that you really DIDN'T
NEED to fuck her that night or EVER.  you stuck to your guns (after letting her
get to you for a while :-) and she eventually ran out of logic and got
overridden with kino and gave up the fucking pussy like she came there to do :)

>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!
>
>Maniac High
>http://www.pickupguide.com

EXCELLENT!  keep up the GOOD WORK dude!  :)

---
From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 30 Dec 2000 20:12:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

>Subject: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit
special!]
>From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
>Date: Fri, Dec 29, 2000 10:37 PM
>Message-id: <92jvre$obh@nnrp1.deja.com>

>)this chick is a very highly educated, driven, professional
> career woman and earns likely a big 6 figure salary
>b)she is very mature, focused and spends all day in her office
> surrounded by sharks and other pirrhana type scumbag characters

 She's got to be in control ALL DAY LONG at work. Small wonder then, with a
man, she wants to fully SURRENDER control and be made to submit.  It's like all
those super-powerful Congressmen and Judges and the like who LOVE going to get
pissed-on and whipped by some Madame Dominatrix. 

>I regroup my thoughts.

 I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think about it,
what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a good frame
of mind when all this shit throws your way?

>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations

   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
one. Please, share your story!

> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>her last week, apparently).

Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it feels
good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried about pain,
so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only losing
out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
crack-up.

  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

>he gets upset, and starts
>screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
>just like her ex-bf,

See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her is now
rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally stable person
in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.  

>Then I go on to tell
>her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
>that did NOT happen

 Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state solid and
your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even more than
the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish; good for a
nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING someone
HOW to fish so they can eat for life. 

>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>alone!

 Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

   Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS followers say,
this is BRILLIANT stuff and I'd be proud to be your wing or have you as mine,
ANY FUCKIN' DAY of the week! Sir, I salute you!

>Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
>much)
>of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.

 Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the logic...HER
logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she loses and
what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around losing and
WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM her point
of view.  

 Great, Great stuff...sir, I salute you!

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 12:03:54 GMT

Replies to various people about psychicbabe:

Answers to various questions:

Was psychicbabe british, or Japanese?
She was a brit of Japanese ancestry (ie. she
looked 'j', but thought, acted and had an
english accent like a brit). This in my
opinion made it harder, because brit women
are so fucking F A T, and she was so
slender, sexy and attractive (and she dressed
to kill) compared to all of them. Lots of guys were
hitting on her (and she said she always got hit
on, and hated it.. trick was to not make it look
like a 'hit').

Why not a white chick? Well, I had the chance...
but.. at the conference where I met her, EVERY
brit. white chick there was in serious blimp bulge
territory.. very scary. Why is it so many caucasian
women are so FAT?

It was funny though, because something like 8 guys
(I counted) tried to hit on psychicbabe the night
I PU'd her. One guy was pretty good, the rest were
total AFC's..it was rather funny.

Re: Rocks -vs- gold.. how I use it (yes, it is
Jake's metephor. For RJ, search the original post
on fastseduction.com. It is also on pickupguide.com
someplace (if not it will be there in about 2 weeks,
I am revising the page this week). Basically, I intro
it as follows:
After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
CHick:  gasps!
Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
special
chick: Huh?
Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
care about?
chick: of course not!
Maniac: well, why do you think a guy should do any
different then?
Maniac: See, let me tell you a story. You ever hear
about 'rocks & gold'?
chick: no? what is it?
Maniac: Well, Relationships are valuable things.
And each partner is looking for something. It is like
diamonds (rocks) and gold. Both are valuable.

But women prefer diamonds to gold (usually), and
men prefer gold to diamonds (usually). Of course,
both are important, especially in a long term
relationship, but if a woman could choose, she would
prefer the diamonds  first, and the man would
prefer the gold  first. right?

chick: yeah, probably

Maniac: And (generally), a man can accept gold
without the diamonds, and a woman can accept
diamonds without any gold.

So in a relationship, a woman is mining for
diamonds, while the man is mining for gold.
While they are in the mine together, the
guy gives diamonds he finds to the woman, and
the woman gives the gold she finds, to the man.

But if you give a woman gold only, or a man
diamonds only.. neither is likely to be
very happy, and the relationship will soon
fall apart. In short, an exchange of sorts
takes place in a successful relationship.

And also, if a man expects just gold (sex),
but doesnt want to give her diamonds
(relationship & the mushy stuff), then she
will dump him fairly soon, because he is
playing/using her just for sex..

And if a woman expects just diamonds (walks,
attention, nice dinners, movies..etc) without
giving some gold (sex), then he (if he has any
clue about how to deal with women, though many
men do not, especially in North America) will
dump her because she is using/playing him just
for his personality.

A guy taking a chick to dinners, buying shit
and giving nice walks without sex is THE SAME
as a guy sleeping with a girl, and then kicking her
out right after the fuck is over. (chick says:
'yelch!'. Yes, thats right, and for the guy,
just dinners and buying shit is 'yelch', with
no sex, and no attention is exactly the same.

Because a woman will go to free dinner with
almost any guy, it has no value to me. But
I am like you, I want attention, and I want
to be made to feel special.

And although a girl will go to nice free dinners
with almost anyone, I also know that a girl will
not sleep with anyone. So I know if she does with me,
then it means she thinks I am important. And if
she wont, then it means she doesnt care about me
at all, so I really dont need to see her again,
I will just go find another girl.

Maybe you might think it is unusual for a guy
to think this way, but it is just my way.

See, I dont want to be played. Guys are always
getting played by girls for nice dinners, long
talks on the phone, and for their personalities.
It is the SAME as a girl being used for sex.
So I am happy to give plenty her diamonds, but at
the same time, I dont want to be played, so
I also expect her to want to give me gold.
And if she doesn't, it means she doesnt care about
me, is using me, or it means I am being played,
or I am stupid.

As well, experience has also showed me that
'friends first' almost NEVER results in a
relationship. I mean how many of your BFs were
your friend first (chick usually replies..uh,
zero).

Exactly, so that is why I never play 'friends
first'. Friends first means diamonds for the
lady, and no gold for the guy. That is like
the guy saying (ok, lets fuck for 6 months,
and if its good, we can go to dinner, and go
out, and you can be my GF). Would you like
that (chick: yelch!!).

Exactly.. so that is why it is far better,
that the lady meet me, get to know me, and
then I expect her to be smart enough to know
to take that chance THEN (or reject it, and I will
go get another lady) when it is offered to her.

So that is why I expect things that way in a
relationship with a lady.

After this, a chick is (usually) quite impressed,
or surprised and doesnt know what to say..

[When I recited this to psychicbabe, she actually told me
she was very impressed, that I understood relationships
so well ;-) ]

Had I been smart, I would have used it on HB
geek, and laid her, but after that failure I
thought about it, and then when the same situation
came up with Psychicbabe this week, I knew what
to do..

Ok, now on to other comments..

RJ writes
>Maniac writes:
> >I regroup my thoughts.
>
>  I admire your ability to do this in the field, Maniac. As you think
about it,
> what do you do internally to re-set yourself and keep yourself in a
good frame
> of mind when all this shit throws your way?

A couple things.. first, this PARTICULAR chick is of no importance
to me, because I am (likely) seeing 3 others this week. So it is
not as risky to me to be firm, and keep my ground.

Another important fact, is the way chick's brains are usually
wired. For a
chick, once she likes a given guy, it is hard for her to immediately
switch to another guy. it is far MORE risky, because a chick (unlike
men), usually cannot switch to another guy, once she ALREADY
likes a given guy (story is different BEFORE you got her to
like you..then SHE has more power than you).

So I play on this, and as a result I dont feel nervous/scared at all,
because there is far more to risk to her, than to risk to me. Because
she is stuck to me, but I am not stuck to her. (this also is why
'jerks' can get away with so much shit on any given chick, and why
she will tolerate it.. because her brain has now got her focussed
on THAT guy, and it is now a choice (in her mind), between him (and
his bullshit... or being alone (sure she can get another guy in 10
minutes, but she cannot build those nice feelings of 'attachment'
in 10 minutes.. that gives us men power, once we realize this).

Two, I am generally a very balanced level
headed person, and dont take any of this personally (as you already
know, RJ). Three (in this case), I had
already laid this chick, so I didnt care really if I laid her again
or not.. I already conquered her, and she (and I) already knew that.

If it is a new chick, sometimes, I get more nervous/fucked up (see
HB Geek). I am trying to keep my senses more when this happens

> > Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
> >problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
> >her last week, apparently).
>
> Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with
fucking; it feels

Not sure about this, I think she just simply wanted the fuck, but
wanted to feel she was important to me, and she didnt want to just
get played..

> good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the
vulnerabilities.  So
> when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which
overcomes the
> potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. She's worried
about pain

yes, thats right.

> so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not
only losing
> out on the pleasure of screwing,

Not really. I actually made it clear to her that I didnt care if
she bang me or not. The point was that she had to give her mind
to me, and respect me, and follow me (whether that is bang me,
make her take off her clothes in the window for me, or do my
dishes..whatever.. its not the banging that is important, it is
the submission to me that counts, and what she needs to give me
if she wants my attention at all).

> BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
> believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out
that if
> she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even
WORSE
> crack-up.

Yes

>   Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.
>
> >he gets upset, and starts
> >screaming & crying while running down the street, saying how I am
> >just like her ex-bf,
>
> See? The fear of the pain of being hurt just like her ex-BF hurt her
is now
> rearing its ugly head.  She doesn't seem like a very emotionally
stable person
> in ANY event, let alone having just been dumped by a guy.

No, she is not stable at all. I think though, it is because she
bottles it up all day, to be the 'office bitch' that she has to
be in the daytime. This chick lives for her work. She has no other
life.

>
> >Then I go on to tell
> >her that her BF got a new chick after he got her, but in my case
> >that did NOT happen
>
>  Sharp thinking. Again, what do you do internally to keep your state
solid and
> your thinking sharp? THAT process internally is of great value, even
more than
> the specifics you share.  The specifics are like handing guys fish;
good for a
> nice meal and of value. But  how you get to the mind-set is TEACHING
someone
> HOW to fish so they can eat for life.

Actually, the specifics are important I think. This is why lay/field
reports with details are so important. I think really shitty on my
feet. I really suck.. bad.

But if I have had that same experience before (with another chick),
or been in that same situation before, and
either succeeded (or failed, and then thought about how to handle it
right the next time), then I will handle it correctly this time.

I really believe in field experience. I have alot... really alot.
so I have seen many of these situations before. It is like chess,
or a foreign language. If you've been there before, and worked out
a solution, then you know what to do. You MUST get field experience.
It is CRUCIAL. And each time you fail, you go home, and see what
you did right/wrong, and what you would do if the same situation
happened again. This is why I also post the fuckup as well as
the lay reports.. they are very valuable to me in gathering my
thoughts and forcing me to think about what I did right/wrong,
as well as listening to the other's comments about them on this
NG.

I also look at the other's reports as well, and learn about
situations, and ask myself for each one, if it happened to me,
what would I do/how would I handle it. Eventually, after doing it
for a couple years (I have been at this in ernest for about 2
years now), you get better at it. Learning situations in PU, is
like learning the words of a foreign language, and how to connect
them all together.. how to move from a bad situation..to a good
one to get the chick in a horny state..

Also, I keep in mind alot about what MrSex4uNYC says about attitude,
and when I get stuck, I ask myself, what would NYC tell me right
now about this situation. He is very congruent, and if you think
things this way, it is easy to be clear what is the right way or
wrong way.

> >I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
> >with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
> >with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
> >and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
> >unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
> >alone!
>
>  Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to
her her
> "ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she
can then
> accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!

Yes, basically that is the idea. I am not sure that it means I am
an authority, but its more, to convey that she is clueless, she
is wrong, so to listen to herself will make her fuck up even more..
..so maybe she had better listen to me instead, and then she wont
fuckup as much.. basically that is the idea..

>    Excellent...Maniac, I don't give a damn WHAT my orthodox SS
followers say,

I didn't get this.. What are orthodox SS followers, and I had no
idea they were saying anything about this.. I really dont understand
what you mean here..

> >Now what I am doing with all the above, is not arguing the logic (too
> >much)
> >of this, because, of course she is right, and I know this.
>
>  Actually, you ARE not arguing the logic, but you are USING the
logic...HER
> logic..HER way of viewing things.....pointing out WHY and HOW she
loses and
> what will happen if she doesn't stop it.   It's all centered around
losing and
> WHY she loses, based on what she has told you.  It IS logical, FROM
her point
> of view.

Yes, basically that is the idea. What I meant was, is that her main
point is that she wants a monogamous BF, and doesn't want to be played.
But, I am playing her, and she (at some level) realizes that, so
in essense, her gut feel about this is totally correct.

But I am playing her desire for the fuck, and her fear of losing
out, which lets me bypassing her gut feel that she is being
played, and then I can get her to fuck anyways.

Good followups everyone!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

-----

From: maniac_high@yahoo.com
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 12:10:23 GMT

  "Dohn Joe"  wrote:
>  wrote in message news:92n7b96
@nnrp1.deja.com...
> [snip]
>
> The more I think of it, the more this seems to be a great PU.
> I think the PU in England is the gist of your piece of work.
>o I'd be glad to see more
> details on how you picked her up in England, that's the hardest work. How
> did you stand up the crowd? How did you make it not look like a PU?

I was using psychological 'jujitsu' (use the strength of your
opponant, against themself). There is a field report from 2 months
ago, that outlines the PU (check fastseduction.com archives).
Basically, I met her at a conference. I didnt talk to her much.
Then I followed her onto a bus that was taking us to the next
meeting place. A guy was hitting on her, and he sat with her.
I sat on the seat in front bymyself.

She (like most british bitches), started complaining about how
she hates men, and other bullshit. The guy on the bus with her
is taking this/agreeing with it (if I remember right).

I just turned around (and tonality and eye contact here is crucial),
and just tell her in a VERY authoritative voice, slowly.. "perhaps
you have just not met the right man yet, one you understands you,
deeply, and completely. But.. you never know the future.. now do you..
I used killed eye contact, spoke slowly, and continued "perhaps
if you open your mind more, you might find him.. by surprise, without
even expecting it, because often, that is the way it usually is..see"

Psychicbabe went "maybe", and then started more manhating bitching.

I then described the kind of man she wanted "one you could rely on,
but at the same time, be mysterious, and exciting in some unexpected
ways, because he just knew how to reach you deep inside you, and
your mind.. that is what your looking for..isnt' it?"

Psychicbabe: yes,

{continue PU, bunches of stuff from the ManiacPlan, if I remember
right}

The key here was the tonality and Eye-Fuck contact. That is what
did it more than the words I used. I just totally crushed her
with it..

> How did
> you get past her "bitch office" shield? I'm asking especially because, as I
> picture this woman, it would seem pretty intimidating for me to approach
> her.

I had the attitude that she obviously had never met a man that
knew how to give it to her right, which means that she obviously
needed ME far more than I needed her. That mindset made it easy.

> I admire your ability to take her from there into total submission.
> existing relationship than guys. That's why many (even HOT ones) find
> themselves in a dead end - boring or abusive - relationship, love to
> complain about it to whoever they find to listen, yet are unable to step out

EXACTLY!!

> of it. That's why the first fuck is hard - after that she is bound
> emotionally to you. You see,

>Women's sexuality is DISSOLVED in them.

Yes! you understand it!! (true for most, but not all chicks though,
some just like sport fucking, like we do)

> GREAT words to remember for all us RAFCs when we feel like beating the walls
> after a fuckup... I myself am so darn depressed when coming back after an
> unsuccessful encounter with a chick. Yes, each field experience is one more
> lesson

Yes, do NOT underestimately field experience. It is SO important.
I fucked up TONS (see all the fuckup reports I used to post a couple
years ago on ASF), and I still fuckup alot (see HBGeek, or HockeyBabe).
Over on cliff's list they say it takes 2..4 years to get good
at something, and 10 years to be a master. I TOTALLY agree.
I have only been at this for 2.. 2 1/2 years. And the more I learn,
the more I realize I still need to learn.. There is still TONS that
I dont know yet.

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com

----
From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:08 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

I, for one, am really GLAD to see a post from RJ that has helped me move
forward in MY game :)  not that I am an ingrate hehe... his contribution to all
this is UNDENIABLE to begin with and if I hadn't stumbeled onto his site, I
would have still been using my caveman tactics and my MENTAL seduction game
would still be lacking.  as much as I appreciate his contribution to the
seduction game in general, I had been disappointed with all the flaming and
nonsense that he and others had/have been involved with because I thought that
this NG was BASED on USEFUL interaction between him and the rest of us, but I
found that not to be the case :(  not that ANYONE gives a fuck what I have to
say about this, but I wanted to back up into the PAST to make it clear that I
appreciate RJ's PERSONAL contribution to the NG TODAY.

In article <20001230151247.26801.00001467@ng-fi1.aol.com>, erosla77@aol.com
(ErosLA77) writes:

>>I tell her the rocks/gold story (I love this story, it is
>>excellent for dealing with chick bullshit) and my expectations
> 
>   Metahpor is a POWERFUL tool to move folks from a fixed perception to a new
>one. Please, share your story!

I have been doing this without identifying it:

A) find out her perception (marriage, monogamy, sucking dick VS kissing...)
B) "quote" her a story illustrating a chick that saw things a DIFFERENT way
(the way I want HER to see things) and benefitted GREATLY from it (she is still
with me, she got married to the guy she wanted, she gained inner peace and
self-love...)
C) watch her AGREE with something that she just minutes ago BELIEVED was
incorrect, or not for her.

the most fascinating part is (C) because I didn't realize my powers of
validation, pacing then LEADING had developed so strongly.  this is partially
because I am an empath and can FEEL when a chick moves into different emotional
states so I can relate to her from within her own state and effectively "vulcan
mind-meld" with her, turning the TWO of us into a SINGLE, functioning entity so
that I can dictate for US... to a degree.

a frequent situation is chicks asking me if I am single.  basically, I explain
to them that I am in an "open" relationship.  they practically INVARIABLY
disrespect my MLTR for being stupid. "how can she go for that?" "I would have
dumped you" "I would never let a man see other women"...  sooooo :)  I let them
go on and on and get it all out and completely ENTRENCH themselves in the DREAM
of them being with a man like me AND dumping me or CHANGING me or whatever
their BULLSHIT FANTASIES are at the time.  THEN I go into the BENEFITS of being
MY PRIMARY relationship... :)  when I stack up the LIST of BENEFITS and it
stacks HIGHER than those bitches have in their OWN RELATIONSHIPS RIGHT NOW,
they start thinking.  they think about what LITTLE they really have in their
relationships that MY MLTR is getting.  they think about the TRUST and
COMPANIONSHIP between us that they DON'T HAVE with their borefriends.  they
think about how she is SEXUALLY SATISFIED... DAILY if she wants it.  she has
someone to give her the REAL DEAL on how men are and what we want from
chicks... not someone that's going to keep playing her until he is finished
fucking her.  they ALSO see how the other bitches (like them in the near
future) come and go and MLTR CONSTANTLY receives the benefits of being with a
man that does EVERYTHING for her that she could want... for the MERE price of
NOT bailing because I fuck other chicks :)  once I break it down to them, ALLLL
I see on their faces is ENVY.  matter of fact, they tend to look EMBARRASSED
when I ask THEM about THEIR relationships.  oh, that reminds me... the bitches
that DON'T HAVE A MAN AT ALL fare the WORST in these situations.  my MLTR has
NEVER-ENDING SATISFACTION... they have STORIES of what they WOULD DO... IF
they could get a man AT ALL!  :)

chicks would rather have 20% of a WINNER than 100% of a LOSER!

>> Now she starts crying, and saying that was the
>>problem with her ex-BF, that chicks always chased him (he dumped
>>her last week, apparently).
>
>Ah, she has MIXED emotions. Pain AND pleasure associated with fucking; it
feels
>good but could lead to emotional betrayal because of the vulnerabilities.  So
>when you pull it all away, then she has the fear of loss, which overcomes the
>potential fear of potential emotional hurt later on. 

wow!  VERY powerful :)  I had really considered these to be apples and
oranges... pain of emotions after sex and pain of LOSS of the individual. 
however, discomfort is discomfort.  I quit giving UTILITY to this PIVOT I was
using because I realized she had ZERO self-esteem and not many other redeeming
qualities other than her looks.  she went from LJBF to NEXT overnight.  I had
been using her for a pivot because of her looks, but her lack of personality
started to wear on me and finally, she had to go.  no more hanging out, no more
phone calling, no more help with her love-life... nothing... cold turkey. 
completely FORGOT about her.  about a month or so later, the holiday season
comes around and she  A) calls me  B) tells me she bought me something for
christmas (I bought her NOTHING, not even a CARD and didn't bother to get one
when she told me she bought me something)  C) tells me she wants to bring it TO
my house, and  D) shows up with gift in hand, READY to socialize and spend time
with me.  

this is the SAME bitch that NEVER went in her purse to even OFFER to throw in
money when I used to use her for a pivot.  I didn't mind paying for her though
because the benefits I got from being out with an attractive chick that KNOWS I
am out to get OTHER bitches and facilitates that was well worth it :)  hehe... 
too bad for her, MLTR was over and I received her gift, talked to her for a
while (where she told me her recent "relationship" blew the fuck up in her face
:-) and then ejected her to keep having fun with MLTR.

I have been using outfoxer's style of letting bitches get involved in bullshit
relationships, TELLING THEM the relationships are bullshit then letting them
fall FLAT on their faces and come CRAWLING back to me :)  I just haven't added
the part yet where I get indignant that they are giving sex to CHUMPS that use
them like BITCHES and throw them away.  hehe it is fun enough at this point
just to hear about their FAILURES from the horses' mouths and see the sad looks
on their faces, while I am CONSTANTLY SMILING :)

what you described is BASICALLY what happened to her, except NOT in the sexual
content, but in the companionship content.  she THOUGHT she had a solid
position with me as my pivot, so she didn't feel like paying for anything
because she thought I NEEDED her, not WANTED her.  as soon as I didn't want her
anymore and dumped her from LJBF to NEXT, she was OK with it UNTIL her
relationship BACKFIRED... THEN she decides she wants to get back in good with
ME, which she can't do because I don't give a fuck about her and except for
looks, she can't compete with MLTR AT ALL!

the pain of loneliness overrides the emotional pain of sex without
committment... fascinating :)

>She's worried about
>pain, so you point out the pain if she DOESN'T bang you...the pain of not only
>losing out on the pleasure of screwing, BUT the pain of losing you and FURTHER
>believing she is doomed to lose. You just take her map and point out that if
>she doesn't drive where you want her to, she's going to have an even WORSE
>crack-up.
>
>  Once she accepts this, it's a done deal.

ok, this is interesting too.  "this is why you fucked up with your ex and I
feel the same way about that particular topic".  you are FORECASTING her
EJECTION unless she changes her ways.  she is still WITH YOU and has a chance
to do the right thing instead of getting ejected.  she already knows how it
feels to BE ejected by her EX and doesn't WANT to go through that pain AGAIN
with you.  you dictate to her HOW she could have avoided it with her EX and she
learns how to avoid it with you and gets in line.  this is another reason why
DICTATING what you REQUIRE from chicks is good, because they have the roadmap
to success or FAILURE with you.  as long as you have demonstrated personality
AND value BEFORE getting to this with her, she will be in a state of "how can I
get my hands on this guy... and KEEP him?" and then you will tell her what she
needs to do to be CONSIDERED amongst your TOP chicks and then is is up to her
to either fulfill her womanly duties or... as you predicted... get ejected and
feel the PAIN OF SEPERATION all over again with someone that she ALREADY knows
she WANTS to be with... WHATEVER the cost.

everyone has their price.  I find, most times, chicks are TALKING with no
EXPERIENCE.  a chick told me that she dumped her borefriend because he laughed
at her.  I told her that the sex must not have been good because otherwise she
would have had to use more than THAT to justify dumping an entire relationship.
 she CLAIMED that sex had nothing to do with her decision and that he didn't
RESPECT her was why she dumped him.  I told her that if the sex had been what
it is SUPPOSED to be... I GUARANTEE her that she would NOT have thrown THAT
away because of some laughing and disrespect.  I also proceeded to laugh at her
AND disrespect her IN HER FACE and told her I don't care because we are not
dating... she can't DUMP ME!   she never ADMITTED that I was right... BUT... by
the end of the conversation, she was asking me WHAT SHE SHOULD DO TO MAKE HER
LOVE LIFE BETTER!  :/  gotcha!

>>I  tell her that she wants everything to be a 'perfect' situation
>>with a guy before she makes a move. She wants him to be ideal
>>with women, skillful, handsome and know how to treat a lady..
>>and still be single!! I go on to tell her that that is TOTALLY
>>unrealistic! And THAT is why she loses! and she always ends up
>>alone!
>
> Powerful because it is 100% true. You have accurately described to her her
>"ruin" so now that she accepts you as an authority on who she IS she can then
>accept you as an authority on who she CAN be and WHERE she can be!  

yes.  I really have not been making the MOST of pacing and leading.  I have
been seeing where they ATTACH THEMSELVES to my way of thinking and see me as an
authority.  I have not used this to MAKE POLICY for them... merely to open
their minds and get them to think more efficiently.  you are right though. 
once you capture them... LEAD THEM!  make SOME efficient use of your new
followers... even if you were only practicing or passing time by capturing them
:)

excellent post :)

------

From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 02 Jan 2001 18:58:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re-Lay Report! Psyching out psychic babe! ..a chick bullshit special!]

In article <92n7b96@nnrp1.deja.com>, maniac_high@yahoo.com writes:

>After chick says bullshit about wanting to go to
>dinner and be friends or shit for 6 months before
>becoming a GF, I say: Actually, I dont go to dinner
>or stuff like that with ladies who are not my GF
>CHick:  gasps!
>Maniac: see, going to dinner, is an important step
>in a relationship for me. I only share it with someone
>special
>chick: Huh?
>Maniac: Well, let me put it this way, do you ever
>sleep with a guy who is just your friend, or dont
>care about?
>chick: of course not!

[lots of good use of Jake's shit snipped]

this is interesting, though I couldn't tell if this is something you are GOING
to do, or something you DID already.  either way, IF you are congruent, this
will serve you well as an alternate form of screening.  most of the time, I
screen by ASKING chicks shit and listening to their answers while watching
their faces and body-language.  another way to do it is to basically DICTATE to
them what I need to even CONSIDER being with a chick in any capacity
whatsoever.  most of the time I don't do this though because I can tell already
that the chick is worthless.  I usually get into DICTATION when she asks me
about myself.  am I attached?  what do I look for in a woman? etc.  THEN, since
she asked, I get into the reasons I have chosen women in the past and why I am
still with them in the present.  as I do that, I lay down my laws WITHOUT
telling the chick I am talking to that she needs to get in line with this shit
or get the fuck out of my face.  I have had a couple of chicks blow themselves
out after this.

I was talking to a chick that I know from YEARS ago that started calling me
again and talking about nothing.  I tolerated her for an hour or so on two
different days  A) because I was bored and  B) because through her speech
patterns and recurring ideas, I was learning if she was worth anything to me at
all, considering I get everything I want or need from MLTR in the first place,
she only had a VERY LIMITED use to me, as GOOD backup-pussy.  MLTR is smarter,
more interesting, more fun, less psychotic... basically TRUMPED her in all
areas, so this chick had NO CREDIT with me whatsoever.  I ended up getting into
PRECISELY what you did in your post.  the KICKER was when I told her "I don't
even TALK to girls that I don't want to fuck".  since I had not fucked her AND
had not suggested that we get together (she BELIEVES in monogamous
relationships for herself and even if she fucked me one time, it would be
merely to relieve her own personal stress and I am not going to be there for
her for that.  I am looking for MORE MLTRs... anything else can go fuck off.  I
laughed at her way of being AND broke it down to her why it was so stupid AND
let her know in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that I was not going to be involved in
ANYTHING CLOSE to what she claims to want for herself... she can STAY HORNY for
all I care) she INTELLIGENTLY asked me WHY I was talking to her...  I let her
know that I found her amusing and her way of living ineffective.  I pointed out
to her that in the YEARS since I had spoken to her last, ALL she had to show
for it was a bungh of jibberish about WANTING a monogamous relationship that
she HAS NOT ATTAINED IN ALL THESE YEARS!  I let her know that I had predicted
that she would REMAIN dissatisfied for years to come and my talking to her
allowed me to follow her LACK of progress while, in the meantime, I get laid
EVERY DAY by MLTR :)   I have not heard from her SINCE that conversation...
good riddance.  she knew what she HAD to do if she wanted more of my time.  she
knew what she was going to have to do IF she wanted to socialize with me at
all.  she felt like her DEVOTION to the idea of a monogamous relationship with
a NON-EXISTANT man was more important than getting fucked by a guy that she
KNOWS and LIKES.  she is an idiot, and will remain horny UNTIL she fucks the
wrong guy, then has NO ONE to comfort her because I will not be there because
she had her chance and BLEW IT!

I have ZERO TOLERANCE for chicks that want things their way.  if they LIKE
doing things MY WAY, then they can be with me...maybe... for a while... as long
as they still LOOK HOT :)   when I approach chicks, I ASSUME they will fail the
screen because statistics show that I require A LOT from a chick and most of
them are either distracted by work or other relationships or just are not
QUALITY enough to be with me.  I find it amusing how ridiculous the SAME girls
are that I used to DESIRE to go out with and that I USED TO dislike being
rejected by.

now, I meet and REJECT girls daily.  not actively, just after I meet them, I
make NO EFFORT to remain in contact with them and go off to talk to other
chicks, leaving them wondering WHY I was interested enough to approach, but
BECAME DISINTERESTED and ejected for a SIMILARLY-GOOD-LOOKING bitch :)

Buy Ultram No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy Ultram No Prescription, From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Learning what to do when a chick is really not into you.

From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: ]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram price. Where can i find Ultram online, Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:20:33 GMT

]HB Geek teaches Maniac the 3 no's rule, Ultram samples. Purchase Ultram online no prescription, 001212

So now I learned a new way to deal with this situationeven if I didn't lay HB geek, so at least it was an educationalexperience.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/Before you buy.

Bagging HB Afro, the fly who shagged me!

Maniac High — Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at: Maniac High's Seduction Website

http://www.pickupguide.com



Here is where I lay HB Afro, using Taro-san's  'Our world' approach!



From maniac_high@pickupguide.com Sun Sep 26 09:04:14 1999
From: maniac_high@pickupguide.com (Maniac High)
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Lay Report! The fly who shagged me! -- HB Afro gets swatted!
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:03:52 GMT
Organization: Intelligent Telecom Inc.
Lines: 206
Message-ID: <37ee191d.6085511@news.crisscross.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.crisscross.com
X-Trace: news.itjit.ad.jp 938351071 27245 202.217.215.5 (26 Sep 1999 13:04:31 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@itjit.ad.jp
NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Sep 1999 13:04:31 GMT
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227
Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:60180
Status: O

Lay Report! The fly who shagged me! -- HB Afro gets swatted!
990925

Well here it is, the follow up on my outing report about HB 
Afro who played tonsil hockey with me last Thursday. First, 
lets talk a little more about the chick, and then how I was able 
to lay her. First of all, HB Afro is a petite young Japanese girl 
(no she is not a black woman, she is an oriental and just has 
an afro hairstyle), weighing around 85lbs. She is a dancer, 
and I first met her at a party after a parade that she performed 
in in Tokyo. In the parade, she was dressed in a sexy "fly" 
insect costume (body fishnet stocking, big wings, a T-back 
bikini bottom/top, and not much else.very sexy/"hentai" as 
they say here).  Her pic is in Nathan's lounge in the Maniac 
section, or just access it from my page directly. 

Here is the lay report, lets look at what I did right/wrong. I 
tried a bunch of new things again today too, with varying 
results, so we'll look at those too, and how they turned out. 
Constructive comments, as usual, welcome!

Okay, first when I met her at that first party, I spoke with her 
briefly, and just tried to get her basic interests and whether 
she was single or not (she was).  I found out she liked African 
dance, lived at home with her parents, and had no BF (that I 
know of anyways). I talked with her for maybe 15 minutes, 
got the number/email and ejected. She asked for mine, so I 
gave it.

A few days later, I called and got her dad. I said to him it was 
me, and I waited. A few days later, I got an email from her 
saying how the party was fun and blah blah. I try to arrange a 
time we can meet, and she tells me she wants to, but she is 
very busy with OT at work, and is getting back at 10pm each 
night. She sends me an email a few days later, saying `hi'. I 
try again to set up a meeting time..no luck.

I am getting sick of this "blurry" shit, so I wait about a week, 
and then send the following message:

"Hi xxx

So are you going to make time to meet
me, or are you always busy? I am free Sunday afternoon 
BTW."

That got an answer within 1 hr! We made the last Thursday 
date (that the outing report I wrote is about) and did that date 
like I described there. Now, fast-forward to Saturday (ed-note 
here, this is at the height of the Ryker/RJ flamewar on the 
NG, and Maniac was out snogging a chick and not even 
reading news!; ha!).

First, in the past few reports, it was at this stage in the PU, 
that I would sometimes  fuck up.. the chicks would freeze up, 
and freak out and leave (see Ms. Tubby and Ms. Sparkles 
stories on the website/NG). I did a few things different this 
time, and it worked a lot smoother. This is what I did 
different.

First, on the first date, I did my groundwork. NYC 
(rightfully) criticized me for doing this improperly the other 
times. Ground work means, get her imagination going (using 
David Shades guidelines from his excellent AOL and real 
seductions he posted), get kino, and get serious 
tongue/kissing action BEFORE inviting a chick to my place. 
With HB Afro, I made sure to do all this on Thursday, which 
is something I didn't always do before. From now on, I will 
ALWAYS do my groundwork before bringing a chick over, 
as I realized if I do it this way, the lay is easy when she gets 
to my place, and she doesn't freak out at all, like the times I 
don't do my ground work.

The second thing I did, is again, I didn't make this a supper 
date. That is too much talking, and you cannot kino during 
supper because the chick is across from you, not next to you. I 
decided to meet her at 8pm and take her directly home, after 
she already ate. Also, that costs less as there is no point to 
spend money on a chick until after she sleeps with you 
(another important anti-supplication rule!).

Finally, before meeting the chick at 8pm, I invited Taro-san 
(a PUA I know), over, and we did a debriefing (btw, Taro san 
shagged Cheat-chick's friend this week, see last weeks outing 
report on that outing..I will write that lay report next after 
this one). He had really good advice, and I learned a lot from 
what he said. I will post some of it here, the rest will be in his 
own proper lay report, I will also post today. 

Anyways, he told me that when a chick comes over, the most 
important thing is to set the mood IMMEDIATELY when 
you meet her. That is something else I didn't do at all. I just 
used to meet the chick, and take her to my place, and then try 
to make moves. That is when the freak-outs would happen.

His advice was to, first, when I meet a chick (usually at the 
train station near my house), is to give her a hug 
immediately, with a big warm smile, and try to take her hand 
right there, and hold it the way back. Good advice, I did that, 
and it did make a big difference compared to the past with 
chicks when I met them at the station. She became all smiles 
and glowing instantly, and stayed that way (the whole night ;-
) ). 

Then, Taro-san also said that before a chick comes to my 
place, I should describe the experience as a bit of a 
fantasy..how she will be entering "my world, and how she 
will be able to feel so good and comfortable to spend the 
evening with me together".speak this a-la David Shade-
speak. I did this too, on the way to the house (Taro says to do 
it on the phone before I meet her, but that will be next time). 
Anyways, that worked well.

Then when I got to the front door, I paused and said you are 
about to enter my world. Her face was glowing. Here I fumble 
a bit. I try to kiss her after my sentence, and she resists. I keep 
smiling, and just continue, we get into the house. I know I got 
to get past this kiss thing (she kissed well on Thrusday. but 
that was Thursday..when you meet a chick again, sometimes, 
you have to "redo" the steps like this sometimes, or there will 
be a freak-out. 

I do notice, she doesn't have a resistance to touching, so I hug 
her on the couch, and open a wine and make glasses to toast 
to a wonderful evening. As we hug, I start to describe the 
wonderful sensations of hugging, and being relaxed and 
feeling secure in our "own world" that we created (again a-la 
David-Shade speak). This seems to be working, and she is 
calming down, and I can touch her more, her face, lips, ears, 
and we are in each others' arms now. That is good. I re-
affirm that she is feeling good, and at ease, and she agrees, its 
nice to feel that way now. I try again, for the kiss, and not 
much success. I continue the hugging and the Shade-speak. 
She mentions a comment about how she is slow.for 
everything. I pick up the hint (it means that I haven't made 
her comfortable yet), and change tacts, and decide to slow 
dance to music in the room with her, hugging and holding, 
getting her to feel me more, and talk more shade-speak. I also 
kid to her, "you know, you have very smooth skin and gentle 
feeling, for a bug (remembering her parade costume). She 
laughs gently, that is a good sign. I pursue this, with a few 
more "bug" jokes.

Then we head back to the couch, and I try again for the kiss. 
Again, resistance, but when I put my fingers on her lips, she 
kisses it. That is a VERY good sign. Meaning, she wants me 
to kiss her, but just something is holding her back. So I try 
the following: I say to her kiddingly "I have a very strange 
favor. I have held a bug, touched a bug and now hugged a 
bug.but I have never really kissed a bug passionately. I'd 
like to try.".. her mouth moves forward, and I leap in.

At that point, she collapses totally, and practically 
instantaneously. I kiss her passionately, move to her ears, 
neck, hands on her breasts gently, leg in her crotch, and she 
starts to go wild within about 60 seconds. Sometimes with 
chicks, it is very sudden like this.. the wall comes down and 
they just break loose, instantaneously! 

I continue kissing, and touching, and pull off the dress, kiss 
her crotch, and am fucking her with absolutely no resistance 
within about 5 minutes after the start of the kiss. It is 
important to give a chick a really good fuck, especially the 
first time, because most chicks say the first fuck is always 
shitty. If you fuck a chick really good, she will take lots of 
shit from you (like other girls and stuff), the rest of the 
reslationship, I find, because she knows that no one will give 
it to her like you can. So I pay attention to this the rest of the 
night and will each time I see her after this.

I fuck her a bunch more times, she goes completely wild, and 
I find out what she likes (I always try all kinds of things the 
first night I fuck a chick, to find out what turns her on), 
because they are still open minded, and its easier to see what 
they like, both for you and them. This chick is very sensitive 
on the nipples, and likes a bit of anal action while being 
fucked and likes it a bit rough sometimes. Cool, I will 
remember that for the next times.

After, I give her a nice massage with oil, then she gives me 
one, I fuck her again, and then turf her out at midnight (last 
train time), because I want to meet Taro san and Mr. Cook (a 
new wingman, see next report) at a Shibuya nightclub to PU 
some new chicks. That goes fairly well too!, and is in the next 
(outing) report.

Analysis: Things I learned. 
1)  GROUNDWORK! Fucking important. NYC was right.
2)  Getting her imagination going.read David Shade's stuff 
    to do this!
3)  Kino/Hug when you first meet her the day she comes over
4)  Continue kino, try different approaches if you hit walls 
    (like happened with the kiss)
5)  Fuck her really good so she is begging for more, and will 
    see you anytime you want to.

So there you go!
Again, constructive comments/opinions positive and negative 
are appreciated!

Maniac