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A conversation with Mystery! Pickups

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


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A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here it is....for comments/suggestions/points of clarification. Distills fucking
17 years of wisdom into a Guide that most cats can use. Perhaps a bit weak
on the higher-level organization (e.g., FMACTGH-style map) but in general it
covers most points.

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

Q-Why should we believe what you say? What is your success like?
A-In absolute numbers, by my count I have pulled about 16 women for same
nite fucks out of clubs (ONS) over the last 4 years. These women gave
themselves completely to me physically, including penetration. Add another 5
or 6 for hotels/apartment takeaways that typically went to 3rd base, but did not
involve full sex. On top of that, I have solicited over 100 phone #`s and had
follow-on relations with at least a dozen women whom I met initially in
clubs. These women have been white, Asian, Hispanic and black, with an age
distribution between 17 and mid-30s. Most have been J chicks in Tokyo.
I am not a clubber per se. I specifically go to clubs to meet women, not to
listen to the music (although I do enjoy the atmosphere of most clubs), and
importantly not to shoot the shit with male friends. I probably go out from 15
to 30 times per year. I usually work dance clubs (discos), with hip-hop &
rock bars high on the list. Increasingly I am finding my style works in
English/Irish pub settings as well, although there it is much more of a
mainstream PU as may be espoused by the likes of Maniac or Mystery... I
have often worked kink/fringe clubs as well (e.g., End-Up in San Francisco or
ManRay in Boston). I tend to avoid `hard core` clubs on rap or techno these
days --> a more mixed set is to my liking.

Q: Tokyo is Easy! Do your techniques work elsewhere?
A:I have pulled women in Boston (Landsdowne Street), Chicago (Rush
Street/North End), and San Francisco (Mission/Folsom district). I find Tokyo
to be the easiest market, but the techniques are generally applicable
anywhere. Tokyo is getting more difficult as more foreigners enter, and also
potentially because I am aging (more on that later).

Q: Why do you work clubs? Is it harder or easier than other channels? What
are the benefits and disadvantages?
A: I find clubs to be my easiest channel. Women are there for the plucking,
like fruit on a supermarket shelf. Yes, there may be more competition but it is
visible and defensible (cf the internet chicks who chat with 15 guys at once,
all invisible to you). I have developed strategies to exploit the vulnerabilities
of attractive women in the club scene, such as by choosing the best times to go
& what to look for before an approach.
Club work IS harder on the body (drinking, late nites) and less cerebral than
other approaches. You will be able to do much less patterning. It is often less
psychologically intimate as well, depending more on kino/suggestive body
language or a well-timed suggestive phrase (NLP?) than on deep patterning.
The art relies more on body reading, than word reading (which, in fact, is how
chicks think & operate on a right-brain basis so in this sense is a more direct
avenue to teh chick`s pussy).
On the plus side, the opportunities are gathered in mass as it is easier to
exploit the #`s game. The time constraints also FORCE you to speed up your
game, tighten to the essentials necessary for the lay. Club work also allows
you to move on from a temporary setback - if a club chick does not succumb
to advances/seduction, the next one is right down the bar. Failure is more
visible, which is why I believe some men are afraid of clubs. But the failure
usually carries a MUCH LOWER sunk cost than other types of `dating`
situations and nobody but you really gives a fuck that the chick blew you out
(unless they are laughing & making a big scene, but then it is YOUR fault for
not managing the exit parachute lever properly -- more later). Contrast the
club chick who dumps you by saying `I`m going to the bathroom` never to
return with a blind date or what have you where you are sometimes stuck
empty-handed after an unsuccessful 2-hour dinner/movie attempt at a fuck
close --> when you have to work the next day, and it is 10:30 at nite, and you
are stuck. You are left with your old friend righty with Ed Powers Does Dirty
Deb #178. Enough!

Q: Does club work have a shelf-life?
A: I do find it harder as I age -- not so much on outward appearances (I can
stay abreast of fashions), but on cultural differences talking to woman half my
age. Also, the ability to recover from an all-nite session declines with age. In
general, though, I still find I have the `touch` & I have lost at least 2 or 3
battles over the past 2 years to Men who were obviously in their mid-40s or
later (gray hair, paunches, and the like...). At the end of the day, with effort
age can be overcome and age is a mental state awareness as much as a
biological phenomenom, particularly when we are collapsing the time
dimension to say, one night. Age shows over time...

Q: I need a good wingman, right? All my friends are AFC...
A: Basically NO. I almost always work alone, which quite honestly is a
result of historical accident. It is very rare when I lose a woman or pair
because I don`t have a friend with me. Friends can come in useful for social
proof & to isolate your target, but they can also create jealousy/group dynamic
situations that are harder to control. I`ve seen way too many guys stand by
themselves, spending way too much time talking guy bull rather than hunting
pussy. Friends can be a distraction, believe it or not. I prefer to MINIMIZE
risk variables. I concentrate BETTER and FOLLOW MY INSTINCTS better
if I am alone. If I need a friend, I will try to recruit one mid-way through a
PU night. ADVANCED TOPIC: the most useful role of friends is for
protection from other guys, if a PU goes badly -- this has happened twice in
17 years, so it is rare but it does happen....

Q: Don`t you lack social proof if you work alone?
A: Yes, but you lie. I always tell chicks my friend(s) left earlier...this is
credible because the hour is usually very late. I am also moving around the
club, talking to people, so I don`t look like a social misfit. I will get a
HIGHER level of social proof by being with a hot chick in a club, rather than
being next to my buddy in jeans & dockers. I often sometimes bring pics,
etc. that show me with men/women so that the social proof is there
vicariously....I also recruit wings in-progress, and encourage other men to
move in on the friends of my targets...

Q: Cupid/fundamentals are important (looks, money, cars?)
A: Perhaps more than other channels, but they are not necessary. Leadership
& techniques skills are FAR more important. I closed my first hot chick in
Boston with a Honda Civic that had vinyl seats. Some fashion sense broadly
consistent with the club(s) you will frequent is helpful, but other than that
technique/alpha/kino rule the day. What most guys don`t realize is hot chicks
usually like the same alpha guys, many of whom don`t give a shit back about
them. These HBs get vulnerable (particularly around 3:30 AM in Tokyo).
You have an OPPORTUNITY..... I have also seen attractive women walk into
cabs with ugly mother fuckers, whereby I debrief the friend who stays
behind. The friend says `Yeah, she really didn`t like that guy, but she told me
she wanted to get laid tonite....he didn`t seem so bad after all SMILE`.
Believe me, alot of beautiful girls go with ugly guys...saw one last Friday
again where the initial feedback from a pair of girls who ended up GOING
HOME TO FUCK an unattractive yet persistent black male was that they
`despised black guys`....

These are some basics before I get started with the framework, which
basically tailors the FAMC model, spending more time on some steps, less on
others. I will continue to address topical ?`s where I feel appropriate....

2. MISSION STATEMENT:
I am going to the clubs to get laid tonite, and/or KC at least one woman. I
WILL at a minimum feel up the ass of at least one attractive woman. I am a
MAN and I make no apologies for my sexual desires. I will fulfill some of
these desires tonite. I WILL at a minimum get at least one or two telephone
#`s for follow-on work. I will make mistakes, but these will be learning
opportunites. I will not despise PUAs better than myself, but instead befriend
them and learn from them. I will RELAX and ENJOY myself no matter
what.

3. PREPARATION:
Dress--> slightly aggressive, with whatever happens to be in fashion (you may
need to ask women friends, go to department stores & ask cute clerks, watch
MTV, and importantly make a test run or two to some of the clubs in your
area to determine fashions). Choose colors that women say look good on
you. Black rarely fails. Baggy or loose clothes --> depends on the fashion. If
you want to go to a black/hip-hop venue, loose is HIGHLY recommended.
Otherwise whatever YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE in and what you
have gotten positive FEMALE FEEDBACK on should do the trick. Some
clubs do not allow sneakers, so be advised. Avoid hum-drum clothing like
Dockers or Dexters, unless you are going to a white frat-boy type
club....Leather jackets are HIGHLY recommended--> women like leather,
generally.
Accessorize--> choose an interesting ring, necklace, arm band, tattoo, or what
have you. Or shoes/belt if jewelry is not your style. Cologne is
recommended. Again, ask female store clerks/friends or internet chat mates.
Generally, Polo/RL & CK are good standbyes. I`ve found Bvglari Pour
Homme to work for me, as well as Fahrenheit. Women love smells --> I often
get complemented on this. Cologne also defuses some of the alcohol/smoke
stench....Make sure you have some breathmints/mouthwash as well as you
don`t want to smell like an alkie or coffin-puffer even if you are ;-). Hair gel
can be a PLUS.

ADVANCED TOPICS (AT): I do not recommend going for the Jude Law AI
pimp look (wide collars, massive jewelry, leather)for beginners. Advanced
players can pull of an aggressive, pimp look. Unless you have major attitude
to go with this, I don`t advise it. I will also sometimes wear no underwear or
a leather brief if I want to make myself more conscious of my male power
(this is a bit OT, but it works for me and can make me more sexually charged
than I otherwise would be).
I will try to lay down a bit before going out in order to rest, and maybe have
one drink to relax. Listen to some power tunes to pump yourself up. Think
about your successes! Induce a POSITIVE frame of mind. You ARE the
MASTER of your destiny. You WILL get laid tonite --> no you will Lay the
Bitch tonite, not `get laid`. Getting laid is for passive wimps.

Other preps/things to bring with. Cell phone is a must for # closing (more on
method later). I try to bring interesting props, such as a disposable camera,
travel pics I`ve taken, origami paper, and the like. Sometimes I will use these
in the `Attract` stage of FMAC process that works for clubs as well. Don`t
forget the breathmints.

Oh yeah, one last point. Your goal will likely be to FUCK a CHICK THAT
NITE. Make sure your place is respectable. Spray an air freshener. Don`t
leave condoms (particularly used one) or pornos lying around (a mistake I
made 2 weeks ago). Have the fridge stocked with water & basic food. You
may need breakfast! If you want to get rid of the chick early (shouldn`t be a
problem w/ a club pick-up), perhaps set the alarm & tell the chick you have a
plan --> she has to go (soon after the fuck, early in the morning). Espeically
helpful for married men.

4. STRATEGY:
Minimize risks, maximize opportunites. Your enemies will be excess
variables (friends, groups, time gaps, to a lesser extent other men); your allies
will be opportunities in numbers & mobility, as well as your preparedness &
PU skills.

5. TACTICS
5a. Where to go, & when? Choose an area of high club density --> you will
likely find yourself wanting to club hop. Choose a club that has some side
area where you can break away with a chick and talk. Loud music is OK, if
there is some side area/table area or fast-food restaurants nearby outside. Try
to find a club where they don`t hustle you to buy a drink every 15 minutes...
When to go? I recommend going near closing time, minus one hour. Take the
close time and subtract 1 hour. You want to be IN the club for the prior 1.5-2
hours. This is when the women will be horniest, many men will have left, and
the hot chicks will be on the rebound from getting dumped by the hot guys
who have chosen a different chick & therefore desperate to re-affirm their
sexiness (which you will be more than happy to do). It is the time when
decisions are made on whom to leave with and spend the nite. Much before
this time window, and there is too much `playing` (6 times out of 10 the guy
the chick is flirting with at 12:30 will NOT be the one she walks into a cab
with at 4 AM -- trust me, many men make this mistake of assuming too early
that she is `spoken for`). Much later than the 1 hour before close time
window, and you will feel too rushed and risk that the best ones WILL in fact
likely have been scooped up.
Examples--> Boston club closes at 2AM, be there between 11:30 and 1,1:30.
Tokyo club closes at 5AM, be there between 1:30 and 3;30-4.

As for days of the week, Saturdays are best in terms of volume & people
being relaxed, unburdened by work. Followed next in attractiveness by a
theme nite where there will be fewer men, and which ladies drinks are usually
discounted. Fridays are average. Sundays-Tuesdays are tough.....depending
on theme nites.
Should you drive or taxi or train? Up to you. I prefer to taxi, but it could be
easier to get a chick into a car provided you are sober enough to drive (e.g.,
wanna lift home or wanna see my place - but be careful that she is not using
you for a ride, and in fact will fuck you: if you think she wants just a ride, test
her shit by trying to take a taxi to your place). Generally, if you`ve laid the
groundwork to the point where she is leaving with you --> shouldn`t matter
how you get there. Car is preferable to train, because it minimizes the
distance between you & distractions from other people.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

TIP: Don`t obsess about the `To Drink or Not to Drink` issue, that is a
distraction. Choose alcoholic or non -- YOUR preference, not one dictated by
social pressure. If you are concern ed about feeling wimpy about not
drinking, then order a Coke or OJ and pretend it is a mixed drink, although
that is quite lame. Better to drink non-alcoholic proudly if that`s your
preference. If a chick wants to give you shit about it, then you make a joke
out of it and tell her you are a world-class trained Olympian speed
skater/assassin or what have you and work a gig out of it to get her laughing &
realize the error of her ways -- she will remember your witty response FAR
more than the fact that you aren`t drinking Corona, and will likely be
impressed ;-) If you choose to drink alcoholic, fine. I suggest in moderation,
as being drunk can hinder the closing process (more later...)

Whom do I approach? Do NOT approach the first cute chick you see,
although as you get more skilled & if you have time constraints then using a
strict 3-second rule is not necessarily a `bad thing. However, for newbies I
advise taking time (about 5-15 minutes) to survey the atmosphere of the
club, who is with whom, wehre the dance floor is, where would be good
places to feel up a chick etc. Look like James Dean -- sexy, disinterested,
mysterious while sipping on your drink or a cigarette. Perhaps chat up the
bartender --> these people can give you social proof & be your allies....the
more friends you make, the better (although never forget your MISSION to
get laid with an HB, not chat up every friendly guy or girl in the joint...)

Scan the room & then walk the joint subtly so you can get all the key vantage
points all the while making EC --> make a mental note of who gave you EC
back, and save at least one of these for a later approach should your initial
attempts fail. Make at least 2 targets, and think of how you will approach
them...

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Golden Rule: "Follow the body, not the mouth. Listen to how she touches/responds
to your touching, not to her lame-ass foils such as ? I have a BF?.no?.I can't do
this here?.If her body is responding, the WOMAN is responding, and your chances
of fucking her are VERY HIGH".

WHOM DO I SARGE?
**Usually women go to clubs with friends; the difficulty of the approach increases
with the # of women; i.e., singles are easiest (but infrequent), pairs are optimal,
threes are doable, more than 3 and the variables are harder to control. Sometimes
guys can be in the mix; you should spend your 15 minute warm-up time getting
acclimated to the bar/club to make quick judgments about the relationship of guys to
the women you've identified as potential targets.

ADVANCED TOPIC: Guys are not bad, and can often be your allies as most guys
want to see other guys succeed in a meat market arena when the target female in ? is
not identical. Most newbies overestimate the likely "steady" romantic interest of
guy/girl mixed groups ? generally it is OK to approach, and if there is a
romantic/territorial issue then you usually find out pretty quickly in which case you
play it cool, back off, and re-orient quickly toward non-harmful conversation and
potentially defuse with flattering comments about what a "lucky guy" he is, or what a
"terrific looking couple" you are. You needn"t waste time here being buddy-buddy
and you will want to excuse yourself (toilet, talk to other friends, dance, drink,
whatever) pretty quickly if a formal leave even seems necessary.

I will usually look for an attractive girl, but not a knockout, who is standing/sitting to
the side of the dance floor (probably at a bar counter or table/peripheral area).
Assuming it is a single or pair, I will wait for a pause in the conversation before
making my cut-in ? nobody likes to be butted aside in a conversation, and if you
approach when the 2 friends are talking in earnest you will likely be an unwelcomed
interruption ? fatal mistake, tough to recover from. I will further look for girls who
look either really bored or having a good time ? chicks that seem to ooze attitude are
probably better saved for later, or else approached with a neg ala Mystery"s
techniques. Finally, I will typically approach women who are drinking alcohol, but
not visibly drunk. I find the Evian set and the boozer sets to be difficult to deal with
? I like leverage my buddy Jack Daniels as my ally in the PU, even if this may be
cheating (note?the key is to get the chick dammit; once you've fucked her so she is
screaming out of her panties, then you can proceed to have all the sober non-alcohol
fun you want in subsequent outings?)

ADVANCED TOPIC: WTF Kipp, you are telling me to avoid the 9s & 10?. What
kind of plan is that? I am simply saying start out on the 8s, or a mixed pair. Wait
until the 9s-10s get dissed by their alpha lust targets ? they will have less attitude
later. . Sometimes all the guys avoid the 10s as "beyond my league", and you can
swoop in, but that is an exception rather than the rule. As you get better, you can
directly approach better looking girls as a rule. But I assume if you know what you
are doing in clubs/bars, then you are likely not reading this manual.

HOW TO APPROACH?
This stage is WAAAAAAAAAYYYY overrated (even Maniac is increasingly saying
these days that J chicks have been taken by the lamest openers, such as 'what's your
e-mail address' or 'you look really hot, what's your name")

The key is to be relaxed, smiling, confident, not a panting dog, and simply approach
with good posture, a smile, good intonation, and strength of body manners. The girl
is a human animal ? she is processing not only WHAT you say, but at some
conscious/unconscious level your looks, manner, voice tone, scent, etc. VERBAL
COMMUNICATION is one part of the equation, and overrated in my view.
Particularly in what can be a noisy bar situation?..I may even approach the friend of
my primary target, just to disarm my entry into the cloister and frankly to take a bit of
the pressure off of myself (although this can backfire, if the friend takes your
approach as she is your primary target, in which case chick etiquette of not stepping
on friends' toes may kick in)

General rule-of-thumb styles for different bitches:
- friendly looking, happy cheerful ? neutral to compliment, weak praise, funny off-beat
- average looking ? neutral, slightly funny/offbeat
- queen bee / high bitch shield looking ? neg, neutral, to funny/offbeat. Avoid compliments.

Generally, HUMOR is GOOD, SHORT is SWEET. Make personal (clothing
accessories, general mannerisms, drink choice), social comments rather than talk
about politics, sports, & heavy stuff ? you are in a music club, not a DEBATE club.
LISTEN to a CHICK ? if she talks, grab onto her threads & let her TALK. Chicks
like to be listened to, and led powerfully. Nobody ? especially chicks ? likes to be
droned to sleep by too-long monologue, even if it is slightly witty in your mind (your
mind doesn"t count, her intellectually active mind counts 30%, her
body/subconscious mind counts 70%!!!!). You are in a bar, not a DEBATE CLUB.

**Examples of approaches:
1/ "Hi, this is a great song, don"t you think? Sounds like Janet Jackson, do you know
who it is?"
2/ "Wow, this song brings back memories/Wow, this song really makes me FEEL
like getting down & dancing ? brief dance demo ? don't you think so?"
3/ "Hi there, how are you? I couldn't help but notice your nails. Where did you find
that unique color?looks really cool in this lighting. They aren"t radioactive, though
(laugh)?."
4/ "Hi, I thought you were a leapord or zebra (if wearing animal print clothing), so
my buddy wanted me to come over & check it out to see if it was safe - big smile,
playful poke, laugh?."
5/ "What"s that drink, looks tasty (assuming odd colored drink)-> do you always
drink that?"
6/ "You remind me of xx (famous person) or yy (some chick you know). I bet you
get that all the time?."
7/ Use a prop if you must. Have a disposable camera, either ask to take their pic or
have them take you/your buddies?..whatever, anything to break the ice.
8/ Travel topics are good. Maybe break the ice by blurting out "It feels soooo good
to be back in town after 2 weeks in Hawaii, wherever". Chicks like to travel, & you
can immediately start talking about places you've been/want to go ? create an "our
world" travel state, and substantiate this w/ travel pics assuming you may have put
some in your billfold?.
9/Lastly, compliment on non-threatening accessory ? shoes, earring, lipstick,
necklace, etc. While you probably spent 5 minutes deciding what neckchain you
were gonna wear, the chick probably spent 3 hours (lol!), asked 6 friends how it
looked ? so suave her insecurities?..

CHICK RESPONSES:
1/ Warm Receptive (answers your ?, smiles, maybe introduces herself/friends)
2/ Neutral (smiles to neutral face, acknowledges your ? & maybe answers)
3/ Cool bitch (ignores you)
4/ Ice cold (walks away or tells you to piss off)

In my experience, you probably get a distribution of something like 10%-30%
WARM, 30%-40% NEUTRAL, and the remainder cool/ice. Unfortunately, I am not
going to give you any magic formula to win over the cool/ice crowd immediately ? I
would suggest a Mystery/RJ neg theory approach which frankly I am not that skilled
in.. And yes, they are likely the ones w/ the biggest tits and shortest mini skirts.
You are best off after a cool/ice reception to simply say "see you", move on, and
maybe approach later once their alpha males have gone off to fuck her friend in the
toilet/car and you have likely demonstrated social proof by being w/ other chicks, on
the dance floor, etc. You will likely be feeling wounded, and if you try to pursue
much further immediately will risk coming off as whiny/needy/loser. Bitches smell
dripping blood and are trained to go in for the kill ? you don't need that now. You
know that she is a bitch, and if you have the chance AND choose to approach her
again later on, you will know that you have to display ATTITUDE &
DESIREABILITY back to her. Don"t lose state here ? rejection happens to all guys,
even the best. Maybe she is on the rag, maybe she is pathetically in love w/ one guy
or type of guy (she only rides Benz, never Beemers or Bentleys), there could be a
million reasons that are not necessarily PERSONALLY directed against you. And
yes, maybe you are not "cute" or "young" or "buffed" enough. Shit happens. Forget
about it. Move on.

ADVANCED TOPIC: WTF Kipp, you are telling me I am going to fail maybe 50%
of the time in an approach? That is not a PUA. Well, that's life guys. Even Mystery
in his RJ challenges posits that clubs can be the most difficult channels to work.
Besides, what are your options? Staying at home with Ed Powers Dirty Debs #178 ?
you meet exactly 0 women. Approach nobody but retain your precious ego? You
meet exactly 0 women, or maybe 1-2 UG's who feel sorry for you & approach you.
You have to get out on the battlefield, take some shrapnel, but win the WAR even if
you lose a few battles along the way & get some bumps/bruises.

Remember, you have PLANNED ahead. You are not captive to 1, 2, or 3 chicks'
unreceptive responses to your advances. NO! A key plank of your master plan is
that you are SHAMELESSLY WORKING numbers and EXPLOITING MYRIAD
OPPORTUNITIES. There are other tuna in the sea. There are other seas (clubs) to
which you can sail easily. Don"t sweat a rejection ? she has LOST her opportunity to
feel GREAT with you, that is her LOSS. Move on. Demonstrate your VALUE to the
next chick.

WHAT TO SAY AFTER THE OPENER, where the chick has not ejected or dismissed you?
**This is, second to kino & making powerful sexually directed moves towards the
close, is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the PU. More important than the opener,
which as you read above can be corny, lame, or whatever. More important than the
target selection phase. It is at this stage that you DEMONSTRATE your VALUE,
and decide whether YOU want to CONTINUE the SARGE or move on to the next
butterfly. It can last anywhere from 5-10 minutes to hour(s).
It is also the most conventional stage where the RJ, Maniac, Mystery seduction
materials come in useful. So take heart, seduction skills learned/used elsewhere can
and even should be CRUCIAL SUCCESS ACCELERATORS in the club environs as
well.

After an opener, quickly exchange intros "By the way, my name is Kipp - rhymes
with HIP (laugh). What's yours ? oh, don't tell me, I wanna guess ? OK, give me a
hint". Make quick games/routines that will facilitate chicks remembering you & that
will DIFFERENTIATE U from the other Harry, Dicks, and Hiros out there. Here
is where you continue to demonstrate communication skills (you can talk), and also
good body language. I strongly advise raising your drink to hers/theirs, and doing a
brief toast as you SMILE. (By the way, a toast is actually a good/quick/harmless
exit if a PU is not that successfull ? simply act like you just wanted to toast to some
new "friends" in the bar and move on quickly."

The post-opener stage is also where you are screening for basic compatability: e.g, is
the chick 10 years older than you which you don"t like, is she visiting just for the
weekend from Montana, what kind of music does she like, does she have any unique
hobbies etc. You also have to deal/neutralize friends at this stage. INCLUDE
friends in the conversation initially, maybe ask how they met/if they are good friends,
etc. At some point, sooner rather than later, you will want to isolate your target so I
would suggest subtly positioning yourself IN BETWEEN the friends so that you have
SOLO talking opportunities/KINO opportunities with your target. You can
probably venture light shoulder/body touching here and see if it is well received
(usually no problem 75% of the time; if they recoil, back off, apologize laughingly
saying something like "WOW! Didn"t realize my drink was that strong? what did
they put in there (laugh)". Etc. But it is generally a BAD sign if social kino is
rejected and the chick is probably frigid.

Post-opener stage is where you can run routines, props, etc. For example, 4?s or
simply ask what kind of animal they think they/friends/you resemble, and make jokes
about that. Better to have some conversation that is slightly funny, witty, non-
threatening. You can also pull out your pics you brought, a sketchpad, a camera, ,
talk about a success you had traveling/at work, etc. which DEMONSTRATES your
ACHIEVEMENTS and a MAN who is worth being with. Again, sort of the standard
seduction tool kit which I am not going to go over in detail in this guide ;-(
ADVANCED TOPIC: sometimes it is a great strategy to approach a pair WITHOUT
a well-defined target in mind. See how the flow develops, which one seems to
demonstrate more interest. As you are closer, you will be able to guage them better
physically. But probably the most important thing to bear in mind ALL ELSE
EQUAL is to choose the dominant/leader of the group as your target. That way, as
you go to eject, your chances of being cockblocked by a jealous/alpha female friend
of your target will be much lower. I have learned from experience by losing the
submissive of pairs, when the alpha dragged my friend away to another venue (with
her guy, as is often the case!!!)

Post-opener is also where awkward ?s can come up:
1/ Are you hitting on me? ANSWER: well, if you want me to be honest ? and my
Mom taught me honesty is the best policy - YES. I find you really unique, attractive,
etc. " Note, you have set the expectations, shown you have breeding, and made her
feel good. Now, if a chick will freak on this then that is her problem, and you
probably are best off ejecting.
2/ You do this to all the chicks, don't you? ANSWER: here, it is better to lie. Say
something like "That's a good ?, I can understand that?.but actually, no. I have just
finished this really big project at work I"ve been working on for my promotion to
senior associate, etc. and I haven't had time to hang out lately. But I finished, I'm
happy, and I met you so I feel great!'
3/ You have a GF, don't you?. ANSWER: "Well, women generally do find me
attractive, and I do have a lot of female friends ? what are you thinking, just friends,
really! -- but there's nobody special in my life now?.".
4/ You know, I have a BF?.ANSWER: acknowledge, but subsequently ignore. If
she ejects or continually whines about this, then so be it. Refer to RJs boyfriend
breaking rules. Maybe make some comment like, "he"s a lucky guy (who"s probably
ignoring her, and she feels good hearing that from you) and I'm glad we can talk
tonite, if you were my GF I would be really thrilled to talk to you because you have
so many really valuable things to say YADA YADA YADA'. Make the woman
aware she is MISSING something that you are MORE THAN HAPPY to provide ?
ego-fuck. Generally, speaking from experience in times where I have fucked married
women after they protested they had husbands, or where chicks w/ BFs not present
have eventually given me their phone #"s w/ a bullshit lie caveat to save face like
"we can all go out together sometime", BFs don't matter. Generally, the # close is
the test w/ these attached chicks. Try to get the #/e-mail by all means, even if they
(verbally) resist on grounds of being attached. The 64-million$ sign on whether they
are interested in you is whether they give you the contact info. If you get it, they are
receptive to you and INTERESTED. Period. 8 times out of 10 when you follow up,
they will conveniently forget to mention their BF/Hubby again or mention him only
as a logistical nuisance to you 2 getting something together ;-)

ALPHA MALES ? WHAT TO DO WHEN OTHER GUYS MOVE IN ON MY
TURF
**Best strategy is to pretend you are a blocking guard or a hockey player. Always
physically guard your target where possible. Get her in a corner, you in between the
social crowd. Hold her hand. Look firm at other guys who approach -- not a dick
asking for a fight, but confident & not willing to back down. If a guy insists on
approaching, or worse if your chick gets all googly-gaga over an alpha male she sees
coming close to the two of you, then do your best to ignore him AND her reactions.
By acknowledging his presence & potential influence, you have lost PART 1 of the
battle. If you have to acknowledge, do so briefly. Or else chat him up in great depth,
so that he gets lost in his PU pursuits. If he must join a conversation, do not let him
lead. You try to reassert & direct the conversation flow. But generally ignore is the
best strategy.

This is another reason why you always must try to have good kino w/ your chick ?
you have the chick's body (holding her hand, hip) even if her mind is straying. When
you risk losing is when the guy gets BOTH the chick's mind & body in tow?.also,
at some point if the guy is drunk, huge, and belligerent ? you have to consider your
personal safety (this is actually much rarer than commonly supposed, but it does
happen). If there are direct physical threats, then back off and concede defeat. Your
body is more important than any chick, and if you have to "fight" for you chick
(physically, that is) then she is worth shit. Also, going back to Wings ? either your
buddies or guys you've befriended that nite?Wings come in to play a
cockblock/defense role obviously. But I think that goes without saying.

ADVANCED TOPIC: if you are not in your native country and speak the local
language as well, which language should you use? Generally, I advise using YOUR
OWN NATIVE language or ENGLISH where possible. If your foreign language
(e.g., Spanish or Japanese) skills are pretty good, then go with it. But even in Japan,
English rarely fails and a lot of the girls EXPECT/WANT to HEAR English from
you, not less-than-perfect Japanese. Now, of course, throughout a developing
conversation it only helps you to throw in some key phrases in the native language to
impress the chicks/show them your versatility, but DON"t try to be a SMARTY
PANTS know-it-all unless you really a confident in that role.

WHAT TO DO NEXT, AFTER THE OPENER & DIRECTED TALK?
**Kino, kino, kino. Connect to the body, not only the mind. You need to isolate
your target, bring her to the dancefloor or get a drink together at the bar, and to be
liberally touching her here. Also make more comments that indicate your SOI ?
compliment on her eyes, skin, etc ? I would avoid saying things like "You have a
nice ass or really big tits", although GM style can work. I personally do not use it as
it is not congruent with my personality/overall style. I do GM through aggressive
kino, not words?..

HOW CAN I TELL IF THE CHICK IS INTERESTED?
**Well, firstly don't underestimate the fact she is still talking to you, and hasn't
given you the "I'm going to the bathroom/bar/look for my friend [to never return]"
line. That happens, it's part of the occupational hazards. Also, look for good eye
contact, smiles, her touching you & moving closer, etc.

WHAT IF MY TARGET DOESN't FANCY ME, but HER FRIEND DOES?
Well, you have two choices. 1/ You move on. Or 2/ you find out who the leader in
the group is (opinion leader), and get her on your side whether she is the one who
likes you or not. In this second option, you then do a more lengthy standard
seduction that demonstrates your VALUE to the women, so that the target gradually
warms to you. By the end of the nite, chances are the friend will have forgotten how
you actually moved into the target under her nose?. Remember, the bulk of the
initial impression may be appearances-based, so to generate interest in your target
you will have to demonstrate COMPELLING value beyond the appearances
dimension.

SHOULD I GO FOR THE CONTACT # EARLY, and bail? HOW DO I DO THIS?
**I have probably been moving up in my routine how quickly I go for a # close.
Partly cuz chicks can be dragged away by friends, harried near closing, etc. and it is
a bit stealth to go for a # closer sooner, where you may still be in the friends stage.
How to do it? Tell her you"ve really enjyyed getting to know her, let's chat some
more when we have some more time, etc (standard ASF stuff). Hopefully you've
defined a "next time"situation such as sharing some coffee you both like, a movie,
park, etc (again, standard ASF stuff). Logistically, the only way to do it these days
is to whip out your cell phone, & have her type in her # or read it to you, and call her
immediately to get it into your call history. This stage can be greatly facilitated
(maybe Japan specific) by whipping out phones to compare models ? I often say I am
looking to upgrade my handset, which is true --, showing pics/etc on the phone, what
have you. The # close grows out of a natural extension of this type of conversation,
and is not this big do-or-die pressure laden inflection point in the PU.

ADVANCED TOPIC: do not give out your biz card unless you really, freely want to
do it. Even then, think 5 times about it. Your privacy/work contact is valuable. Do
you really want to give it up that cheaply? That card could get into the wrong hands
(competition, headhunters, etc) that generate awkward calls to you at work ? so be
careful.

ADVANCED TOPIC: If the chick is in a large party-type group, then the optimal
strategy is to get a # contact fast & ask her to call you when she's free. That can
often happen later that nite, particularly if everyone involved (your side & her side) is
bar hopping ;-)

STILL, KIPP, HOW DO I KNOW TO CONTINUE THE SARGE or MOVE ON?
**There is no cookie-cutter answer. One risk of bar work that can lead you to 3rd
base w/ a chick and then a subsequent blur is that you spend the whole nite w/ her but
don't take her home on a successful exit, or she blurs on follow-on contact. Maybe
she ditches you late in the nite, where it is difficult to find new pussy (that sort of blur
is usually casued by her friends dragging her away, or her using friends as an excuse
to leave if she sees a cute guy, etc). Generally, if a sarge is going really well, I am on
the dance floor (more later) feeling her up/tonguing her down, I will stay w/ the chick
and try to bring her to another venue away from her friends (eating/coffee) and fuck
her that nite.

Sometimes I take the opposite approach, and simply try to get a collection of #"s.
The latter approach seems more efficient, but deceptively so. If you don't spend
enough time w/ the chick to make her feel good and/or get a tongue down, a follow
on date may be difficult to pull off successfully. You will fuck 90% of your bar
chicks that nite or the very next date (more in Final Thoughts later)? in my
experience, simply meeting at club & dating several times before sex is a very, very
difficult tactic to execute successfully. You need to get the sexual
interest/dominance/pissing on her like a dog marks his territory (metaphorically, of
course) ASAP. Also, if you cut away to sarge in the same club, you risk her seeing
you in action again & her being unreceptive afterwards. You also risk her being
picked up by another guy if you parachute out with time still on the clock. There is
no hard-and-fast rule, but if the PU-in-progress ain"t broke, don"t fix it ? go with
the flow.

If it is early in the nite & you want to get warmed up, walk around real
briefly/friendly and talk to a few pairs of girls. They don't have to be beautiful, but
shouldn't be UGs as they may damage your social proof. Engage them in light
convo, klink glasses w/ them w/ drinks, playfully dance/ grab their arms to warm up
your kino style and loosen you up, all the while continuing to scan to get EC from
other women and/or until you find a woman you really want to FUCK soon. Then
approach her and go through the sarge in depth?..

CAN I TAKE BREAKS? By all means, do so. Go to the mens room occasionally to
check your hair, reapply cologne,etc. Make yourself physically smile so that you are
CONSCIOUS of the need to put out a good face. Go back to the club. Chat up the
bartender. Find out what makes him tick. Maybe ask him for suggestions on how
you can be popular with the honies?most bartenders. if you"ve befriended them,
will talk pretty directly. Also, use this oppt'y to be friendly w/ another solo-type
dude if you want to recruit a Wingman in progress. Maybe talk to them 10 minutes,
spot a cute couple of girlies, and grab him & tell him "Let's go talk to those honies".
Get him in the role of disarming the "friend" of your primary target, so you don't
have to do all the work & get some social proof thrown in to boot!.

KIPP, TELL ME AGAIN HOW DO I GET KINO GOING & GET HER TO THE DANCEFLOOR?
**Up till now in this manual, I have probably OVERESTIMATED the use of
intellectual seduction. In practice, I will often go from opener to 10-15 minutes post-
open talk, lightly rubbing shoulders, legs, to grab hand & head for dance floor/place
arm around back/hips, and then kino. Getting to the dance floor is YOUR JOB to
lead, take her hand, drag her if you have to. If she blows you out here, don't worry
about other chicks seeing this, nobody will care. You are not 'damaged goods",
simply go to the bathroom, refresh, and sarge other chicks. Or go to the next club if
you feel like it.

A tongue down thereafter can be as soon as 10-15 minutes, particularly again as it is
likely LATE and ALCOHOL is kicking in. You need to feel up chicks as soon as
possible, get them in corners, away from their friends. Give them time to resurface &
go see friends (with you in tow), but be ALL OVER THEM LIKE A CHEAP SUIT.
For every 1 chick you lose w/ this aggressive/alpha approach, you will gain 10.

The risk w/ the ultra fast speed dial strategy is you are not building in the
hooks/demonstrating your value outside of sexual excitement. Chicks will blur on
you occassionally even after 2nd base (hence many of the negative club comments by
some guys that dirty dancing, even tongue-downs, don"t really mean shit). I agree.
If you accelerate the kissing/petting, you need to accelerate the EJECT as well and
make sure you are ALL OVER that chick for the rest of the nite. She needs to keep
the high of feeling good w/ you, and not listen to her bullshit friends when they come
to take her away from you.

CAN I SARGE DIRECTLY ON THE DANCE FLOOR?
**The better you dance, the better your chances of executing this tactic. I often move
closer (even if I am dancing with my primary target at the time) physically to other
target women. I will try to lightly brush their hips when I am dancing, etc, smile,
make EC. (Damn, Japan is great ? one chick I blatantly open-palmed ass rubbed for
like 10 minutes near close in her tight jeans ?hell, she kept backing into my hand &
didn't move away one iota!!!, when I was dancing w/ my primary whom I still am
dating as one of my stable chicks;-)

You can also go up directly to a pair of women / group of women & start dancing.
Usually you can sense their interest ? or lack thereof. Or if it is a dirty dancing/hip
hop contact dancing type of venue, just grab on to them & dance. See if they respond
or move away. Generally, though, I have backed away a bit from the direct dance
floor approaches, because they often end in dirty dance only ? unless the girl seems
real happy you are dancing w/ her (again, read the body ? is she smiling, touching
you, grinding her ass into your crotch?) then you can take away to a corner to
talk/pet, depending on the stage you're at.

HOW DO I HANDLE HER FRIENDS?
**You actively encourage other guys to hit on her friend(s). And I mean actively.
You say they look like a cute couple. You put her hands on him/his on her, etc. This
is not the time to be shy, my friend. Furthermore, you keep your physical distance
from friends. You politely acknowledge them to absolute minimum levels, but do
not indulge them. If your chick insists on walking towards her friends, don"t lose
physical contact with her. Where possible, physically block her friend from your
target (not in an obvious way, though). Your chick has made a choice to FEEL
GOOD WITH YOU that nite ? that is why chicks go to clubs, after all. They want to
FEEL WANTED. SEXY. HAVE FUN. We are not talking fucking librarians here,
but chicks out on the town for the EXPRESS purpose of HAVING A GOOD TIME.
It is your job to DEFINE GOOD TIME for them & deliver it with SATISFACTION
GUARANTEED.

HOW TO EJECT? HOW TO GET RID OF COCKBLOCKING FRIENDS?
DO I EJECT WITH FRIENDS IN TOW?
**Frankly, this is the weakest part of my nite. I have learned from alpha PUAs, who
never seem to say no & quit, and am still learning. Basically, literally tell her you are
hungry or whatever and drag her in tow. If she protests about her friends, tell her
you'll bring her back after eating (a lie) ? in this case, maybe choose clubs where re-
entry is easy. She should have her cell phone, so just tell her to bring it & she can
easily call her friends (chicks do this ALL THE TIME ? they are bullshitting you if
they say they need to be w/ their friends in visual sight all the time). Something else
you can do ? assuming you have gotten tongue down before ? tongue her down again
forcefully. Drag her out. You can do it. Give her chick bullshit back to her about
"what was that tonguedown all about, I KNOW you really like me by the way we
kissed, etc etc". Make her FEELINGS work, not her CONSCIOUS mind. Her Mind
wants to say NO, her body YES. You work on the body, not the mind. Make her
drink more booze if necessary, then repeat the process.

OK, WE HAVE EJECTED. WHERE DO WE GO?
**If you told her you were going to go to eat, do it. A fast food joint. Sit directly
next to her & feel her up while eating. Try to eject to your place ASAP. Use a
cab/car rather than train. Drag her along, tongue her down/feel her up/compliment
her/divert her attention along the way. Same techniques as before. Have her call
her friends & tell her she's OK,; it will be OK (CHICKS do this ALL THE TIME).

DO I PAY FOR HER, if a SARGE IS GOING WELL?
**Don't buy chicks drinks. You have not completed the sarge until SHE HAS
SWALLOWED YOUR MEAT & TASTED YOUR JIZZ. Don't forget the standard
ASF rules in progress. I have made mistakes in paying for post-club dinners (I am
often a bit drunk by this time as well) and drinks along the way (I will NEVER pay
for a drink right off the bat), only to be burned. Feign indifference, surprise
whenever it comes time to pay. Chicks will usually get the cue, and if they are worth
anything they will be prepared to fend for themselves/have budgeted the nite
properly. Paying for the drink will not get you the pussy; grabbing the pussy in a
dark corner will. Don't forget that. If you absolutely must, pay for your chick only
but don't be a fucking ATM machine for all her friends unless they are all gonna
come back to your place to fuck you in a wild orgy scene ;-)

ADVANCED TOPIC: well, hmm Kipp, it sound slike a lot of work to chat up a pair,
choose a target, and manage group dynamics. Why not just bring both of them back
to your place & fuck them silly????.ahhhhh, the topic of club generated group-
fucks. I have not done this. It seems eminently do-able, but overriding social mores
unfortunately do apply in clubs ;-(. Once I brought a pair back to my place & felt
them both up, but I was too drunk to work it & one turned really frigid. Once I
talked really GM to one chick and grabbed her ass blatantly while she was grabbing
my dick as she was dancing w/ my wing-recruit in progress, all the while I was
grinding w/ my primary. That one could've worked ? and in fact I got a follow-up
call from them ? but logistically on transportation issues crashed. I have one in
progress where I am following up w/ 2 chicks who are interested in me (they are best
friends), but one has a BF she brings along when we meet. I plan to crack the 3P
(three-some) nut from a club generated lead this year, and will have more. It is not
quite the lay-up that it seems, and should be!!!!!

WHAT IF I FAIL LATE at nite, and MY CHICK LEAVES WITH HER FRIENDS or worse, another GUY?
**That happens. Rather than sulk, embrace the OPPORTUNITY to open your eyes
& see what real life is in the after-hours club scene. In fact, you may want to do this
as part of your test-run(s) before you ever try to sarge at all, to open your eyes that
hot girls DO fuck guys they meet 2 hours ago in a club. This is how I learned how
to be more ALPHA in my approach. And that is why I don't feel guilty about being
aggressive? The fact is,more often than not, if I am the "nice guy" willing to listen to
a chick and back off on protests I am going to fast/too far, then some other guy
around the corner will step in and fuck her. Then she will send him 5 e-mails that
week about how she really digs him "as a person" even. And she won't even pick up
the phone when I call, assuming I had # closed. I HAVE HAD THESE PAINFUL
EXPERIENCES. It is true. Until you have fucked the chick & made her yours, you
are NOTHING to her. You have to fuck her fast!!!!!

Why did I change my style, and focus on ONS?
When I noticed girls getting into cabs who were different from the guys I had seen
them with 2 hours ago. When I noticed girls getting into cabs w/ "strange guys" at
all. When I noticed that girls suddenly did not have their friends w/ them (guy or
girl), whom I had assumed wrongly would be stuck with them like glue all nite.
When I noticed, yes, that girls whom I had sarged but decided were unfuckable were
jumping w/ joy into into cabs w/ other guys. And, even in one case, where I saw a
"friend" leaping into a cab w/ a guy where my girl (her friend) had dissed me 1 hour
earlier saying "I can't leave with you Kipp, I have to go home with my friend" -- my
girl probably had jumped into some guy's car sight unseen to me 10 minutes earlier
? LIES, all of them!! Learn!!! Open your eyes. Don't get angry, get FUCKING
EVEN with your STEVEN.

I went back and tallied my club scores, about 16 ONS in 2 continents over the past 4
years. This is a lot of ONS, and I know a lot of guys eschew ONS as cheap & risky.
Why this focus on ONS? Partly #'s by my experience, and judging the probabilities
of success. I have fucked, in addition to the ONS group, an additional 9 women on
follow-up # contact (NOTE to Maniac? this may be lower than the # I initially
suggested in Part 1). That is a pretty low #, and it surprised me. What further
surprised me was that to get those 9 follow-on fucks, I dated about 15-20 women.
Some women I dated multiple times. So my success rate in a fuck close fell to 50%
when I followed up. And if I could not get the fuck close on the very next date after
club # close, my success rate fell to like 10% (3 or 4 chicks only).

Therefore, for those of you who think I am too focused on moving too fast, my
experience ?even more than I would have supposed ? suggests that TIME is an
ENEMY in the club channel PU. (NOTE; I have had more success from
internet/other channels in dating 2-3-4 times & still getting the fuck close eventually).
Maybe club chicks are "fast"? Like a Richard Dawkins says, I am facing reality.
Genes are selfish. Girls quickly lose interest in you if they have not committed their
pussy to you. I would, ceteris paribus, prefer to date 3-4-5 times and then go for a
fuck close (I am a normal, well balanced man with many interests outside of PU) ?
however, the RealWorld simply does not seem to accommodate this from my
experience. That is another reason why I emphasize ONS/quick tongue-downs over
getting a handful of #'s which may or may not (probably not) mean shit at the end of
the day, into the next day(s).

Why club chicks, Kipp? To me, the site of young girls in hot fashions wiggling their
tits & asses in an open display of sexuality where they WANT to be SEEN &
FUCKED is an incomparable turn-on. The music/lights/smells create an atmosphere
that we HUMAN ANIMALS can turn on to!!! The #'s are there ? like Willie Sutton
said, I rob banks cuz that's where the $$$ is!!!! With a club chick, you can
immediately screen how hot she is (perhaps you may need to apply an alcohol
discount if you've been drinking). A lot of this contrasts with the repressed sexuality
we see in Western countries or even Japan w/ the gray suits/uniforms, and to me the
club experience is LIBERATING. Women are women; men are men. Differences
are celebrated!

Lastly, need I say, be realistic. Be aware of other people ? most are friendly, but
there are bad apples out there; when you scan clubs for chicks using my method, also
make a note of shady looking guys who give off a bad vibe & remember to stay clear
of them. Don't make enemies in clubs? if you get dissed, even cruelly, in a sarge,
then simply smile & walk on. Happens to the best from time to time. Don't ask for
trouble?your safety is more important than even CINDY CRAWFORD'S
SNATCH, my friend!!!. Don't leave valuables in club lockers ? try to travel lightly.
Always wear a helmut on your soldier & be aware of bodily risks/disease. That is
part of any sexually active lifestyle. A girl who sleeps with you on the first nite ? no
matter what she tells you or her friends ? likely may have done that before. Don't
harbor illusions ? if you take precautions, you should be OK! Have fun. Enjoy.

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

www.pickupguide.com
Kipp, Maniac High
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2002

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Im glad to hear you are working on a street PU framework. Im anxiousto see the final result. Id like to help out with this but am a bittoo busy right now to come up with anything good. Still, I know youare good at distilling the essentials from lay reports, Buy soma no prescription, etc. So Ilooked back on some of my street PU journals, buy soma no prescription. Unfortunately I donthave time to journal all of them, but as you know, when I do, they allhave the kind of detail you always say is missing from most posts.
Most of the onesIve journaled Ive already posted. While you have already heard thefollowing PU in person, I never posted it before, buy soma no prescription. So Im posting it nowto ASF with full details. Buy soma no prescription, Its damn long though. Hope it helps.

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

This is a report on a fully successful (3 hour) street PU that tookplace in Roppongi near the station exit. I had just made my firstapproachof the night on HB Gay, at 27 year old tall HB who had a ponytail, zipper black tight pants, Buy soma no prescription, I think I asked her if she spokeEngilsh, "Yeah", "where are you from?" "NY" and "where are you goingnow?" Got her to stop at the main intersection despite her saying shewas going home. Somehow she volunteered that she was gay and had neverbeen with a man in 27 years. I negged her saying that I thought thatwas odd, I would think that men would have hit on her more often and soshe wouldn't be a lesbian, buy soma no prescription. This worked to keep up the conversation.
I asked all about what her reasons were, saying things like, "so what, buy soma no prescription,has a man never approached you before in the street like this and said,hey lets get together?" She said "well of course" but that she wasn'tgoing to go with me and I say "who said anything about that. Im justtalking to you seeing what its like to be a gay girl around a town ofmen" Then she mentions that she had thought of trying a man before"marrying" her gf. I said she should go to Vermont, blah blah, andsaid things like, Buy soma no prescription, "of course you will want a really good man", blahblah,then the talk turned to her trying me as her first, tried to workit to go with her home but she changed venue and said that if I reallywanted to "know her" I would have to come to her Gas Panic B-day thenext day. Buy soma no prescription, I told her no way I was busy, she insisted, I again said no,we got into deadlock, she left in a taxi and will never see me again.

But it didn't matter cause I was verbally lubed and confident at thispoint, and 1 minute later talked to a hot, very tall, stylish woman, buy soma no prescription,aboutan 8 or 8.5, lets call her HB Physics, who had already seen me passingby already 30 searlier. I had to backtrack and follow her, which always freaks outJchicks. I asked if she spoke English, Buy soma no prescription, she gave the immediateignore/freakoutand tried to run into a store, but I lauged and said, "hell, Im justtrying to talk to you, is that so crazy?" She laughed a little so Ifollowedand asked what she was doing. She laughed and said "looking at books"and that she wanted to get something to drink. (She spoke excellentEnglish) I teased her that she couldn't drink the books, she counteredthat maybe you could, buy soma no prescription. Asked her what she does for a living, she saidshe was a consultant but that she had majored in Physics, buy soma no prescription.
This playedperfectly into my hands. I said, "Oh, so you know Maxwells equationsthen?" I think she was surprised at my response, caught off guard andshe said "yes, and the wave function?c etc." So I said, Buy soma no prescription, "But canyou write down Maxwells equations?" I think she replied withsomething like, "probably not anymore, but can YOU?" to which I saidyes, and that we should go get that drink and I would show her. So weleave, walk for about 5 minutes away from the crowds to a restaurantfor a drink, I think she means coffee, so we pass Gusto and I say
here's a restaurant she says no, buy soma no prescription, lets go further, we come to the place shehad in mind, an outdoor café like place (met a cool dude namedBobbythere, could maybe meet him in Tachikawa and do PU's on HB's whilethey sell clothes.) On the way there I had her laughing a lot, takingabout how that made me feel good, but does she laugh with everyone?cyes. Buy soma no prescription, OK, not phased, try anchoring but too aggressive, put my handaround her waist, big time rejection there "Please don't touch melike that". Buy soma no prescription, I don't apologize, simply say "OK" and keep talkingwalking.
So I wind up sitting across from her, immediately know this is bad,have to get KINO. So we talk about general stuff, I find out she has amasters in Physics from Waseda. I really complement her about howsmart she must be and must have studied hard, buy soma no prescription, she says no, I say areyou being modest, she says no, if she was modest she would say she hadto study hard. We laugh, but now I sort of neg hit her in a way byasking her the quadradic equation, which everyone in physics orengineering knew by heart at one time, but always forgets, buy soma no prescription. She didtoo. So I tell her I don't necessarily remember, Buy soma no prescription, but Im sure I canderive it. I get a paper and pen from the waiter, and start hertrying. Then I realize I can get closer to her this way as shestruggles a bit, and I say "Im not sure what your doing, let me lookat it from your perspective." So I move my chair to a 90 degree anglefrom her and look things over and start the NLP hardcore. Buy soma no prescription, I rest myhand near her and eventually mirror her, then rest my hand on her bareleg (she had the longest legs Ive seen on a Japanese woman) and noresistance, as I have framed this as a "team endeavor", "Its you andme HBPhysics, we are doing this together!" so she is so into it thatshe finally has the bitch shield down. I encourage her when she getsthe right terms etc. I hold her hand I say that Im sending her thethoughts, buy soma no prescription. Then I relax things after she gets it and sit back and lether bask in some glory. "Its like when there is something you want toknow or do, you just have to put everything else aside and just do it?cwith me, that's the way it is, and it feels really good when youfinally do it!"Then comes the killer subliminals or overts, depending on how you lookat it. I showed her shrodingers equation, and she recognized Planck'sconstant but forgot Planks name, buy soma no prescription. Buy soma no prescription, So I played the game again. "Imgoing to send the answer to you through our connection, Im going tohold your hand, and I want you to open yourself up to me as I put it inyou (gesturing to dick, then towards her.)" You can feel it cumming,cumming into you from me, now its already inside you, you just have tofeel it and when you realize it its going to be really great, buy soma no prescription. You needa hint. OK, it's a 5 LETTER WORD STARTING WITH P (DP), and IM PUTTINGIT (DP) IN YOU NOW" (Found DP is a very easy thing to do naturallywhile seated and having your elbows rested on your legs. Buy soma no prescription, Granted, thismay have been all too obvious to a native speaker and maybe even toher, but what is she going to say to a guy holding her hand helping herto remember and maybe making her exited with double entendres.
"it's a 5 letter word that starts with P (DP), I know you can find it(DP)) somewhere IN YOU (PP) if you just open yourself up to me NOWHBPhysics" Hell, Buy soma no prescription, this was exiting me and I had a big wood, and I knewshe could see it. I was pretty sure that was blowing herconcentration, but finally she did get the right answer and I gave hera big high 5. After that I couldnt really keep up that pace so it wasback to some normal conversation and I realized things were cooling andshe even yawned, so I suggested we leave. The psychology was to do aneg take away, but as we got out of the restaurant I restored the funpotential by suggesting we take a walk and explore the other rim ofRoppongi, buy soma no prescription.
I got into some sex talk, talking about the Japanese habit of declaringopenly ones status as S or M, she said a little of both, buy soma no prescription. Here I NLP'dwith a double bind and said, "So you could imagine yourself gettingtied up and having a man do whatever he wants to you, or on the otherhand you could see yourself in leather and high heeled boots whipping aman?" She laughed but said something non-commital. I said, "yeah,that is a bit crazy, Buy soma no prescription, but what is the craziest thing you have everdone?" Im not sure when I asked this or even the answer right now. Igot kino with her for a brief moment as I suggested we walk Frenchstyle arm in arm and she asked "oh really, do they do this inFrance?" sure I said, but then tried to hold her hand and she stoppedthat saying that it was too hot and she didn't want to sweat.

We walked by a catholic school or something and I hummed the MissionImpossible theme and said lets go in. Buy soma no prescription, she considered it for a secondbut since I couldn't get the gate open, gave up and started to walkoff. I feverishly figured out how to get the gate openand grabbed herhand and said "lets just sit down for awhile on the steps." I thinkI tried to IC pattern her and it wasn't working too well. ( I at onepoint, maybe later in the strory, buy soma no prescription. tried poetry on her, and didn't gettoo far either). Hmmmm?c. Here I tried some kino and did a good job ofeliciting values, buy soma no prescription. I asked if she was romantic and she said not really,big surprise here, but this revelation definitely helped me get laid. Buy soma no prescription, I kept on this track "so what are you looking for in a manthen?" "Well, just someone who will be there for me when I needhim." "So I guess that is in part because maybe you are really busy,right?" Yes. "I know what you mean, my job sends me all over theworld, and sometimes I just wish I had sort of a friend like that." Gotback to IC a little and said "You know, as I was saying before thereslike 6 billion people in the world, and in your life you maybe meetonly 10000 of them, buy soma no prescription. And only even remember the names of 1000 of them. Buy soma no prescription, And some of those are through work or whatever, theres no mystery ormeaning in that. But what about if you met someone the way you didtonight, who had so much in common and who after only an hour you couldtrust to be sitting alone and holding hands in a place like this??@(great job of pacing the ongoing reality if I do say so myself). Well,maybe its not a destined romance, but I could easily see us becomingthe kind of friend you seem to need right now. Buy soma no prescription, I mean, its either thator the meaning of this was for me to make you remember the quadradicequation, and I think you know which of those makes more sense!" Sheseemed to somewhat agree, but still noncommittal.

I offered a massage, second time, still no immediate acceptance, so Itook intitiative, buy soma no prescription, moved her purse and stradled around her and gave hera good back massage, lots of skin touching as she was wearing astrapless blouse. I kissed her neck and ears, but she got ticklish, buy soma no prescription. Ifound out that she said she hadn't been exited by a man in a longtime. I thought, oh no, lesbian, Buy soma no prescription, but still pursued. No, not lesbian,but just hadn't been turned on by men a lot recently. I said maybeshe just needed a new and different strange experience. Buy soma no prescription, There had beenpasserby that were interfereing with my game, and Id learned from Trainchick that I didn't want to repeat that problem, so I stood us up andtook us more into the shadows and tried to tounge her down, butresistance and we wound up walking out of there.

I walked us still further away from the core in order to get a drinkand reestablish trust, and then we shared the drink. We walked pastthe same place and I said, buy soma no prescription, wait, I have an Idea, lets go see what wasin back of there. She came with and I put the moves on again. Still,she said she just wasn't getting excited. I said, "when was the lasttime you got exited, tell me about it." She did, it sounded like a 1week stand, buy soma no prescription. Buy soma no prescription, So I suggested to her that of course she obviously wantsto be exited and that a similar experience might help. I joked that Iwould help, it would be fun for me to try, and that if I failed, shecould of course trust me to back down as I had done so many times thatnight already. But I emphasized confidence that if she would only letme change the venue, I would exite her without a doubt. "I mean, buy soma no prescription, howam I going to exite you in this damn playground. Buy soma no prescription, You live close tohere, and if we were at your place I could at least give you a nicemassage and try to get you exited there. And that would feel good nomatter what the outcome, right?" She said, "Yes". So I had pacedthat pretty well and acted like her "Yes" was a "Yes" to going to herapartment, so I said, Buy soma no prescription, "Yes, you are right." I went over to grab herthings and took her hand "We will get a taxi from the street outhere." Absolutely no resistance for the rest of the night. I kinoedslightly in the taxi but not too hard.

In her apartment I eventually gave her the massage, then said that tolead to exitement for both of us I would take off her top and bra, didso, then her skirt, massaged her ass though see through panties (yes!), buy soma no prescription,and finally took those off, tounged her down, and maybe 2 or 3 hoursafter meeting her and getting all this resistance I was inside herrocking her world. She tried to deny being too exited after it was alldone, but the way she had come told a different story, buy soma no prescription. I had neverseen a woman come like that, it was like she was imploding, with herarms and legs curling inwards like she was trying to go into a fetalposition.

Anyway, lots of textbook NLP here, but the real key was just beingpersistent and continually altering my approach as I found out moreabout her through value elicitation. The final approach was not one Iwould usually use, since it seemed really lame (I will try to help youget excited. BS) but somehow it worked so I wont argue with the
results.

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

www.pickupguide.com
Kipp, Maniac High
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2002

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: A conversation with Mystery! Pickups.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

www.pickupguide.com
Kipp, Maniac High
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2002

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Statement of Intent (SOI).00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205$9t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

www.pickupguide.com
Kipp, Maniac High
All Rights Reserved
Copyright 2002

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Earlobe Kino!.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Setting up the Kiss Close.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Maniac High's Pick Up Girls Guide and Seduction Website! » conversation

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


A conversation with Mystery!

Tips on fieldwork from a pick up artist! on IRC #PUA!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Conversation with Mystery, a Pick-up Artist (PUA)

Topics Include: 

The Kiss Close
Clubbing alone
Handling guys
Being a story-teller
Preparation and format
Quality vs. quantity

Lego: Hey Mystery, what's your favorite story to close with?  How 
exactly do you transition from the telling of a story to closing?

Mystery: "The Kiss Close" is my favorite routine.  Once you have three 
indicators of interest (she touches you, laughs consistantly at your 
jokes, leans in towards you, smiles a lot and keeps eye contact, resumes 
chat when you force silence, etc) you then phase shift.  You turn 180 
degrees on a dime.  Go from humorous and non-sexual to saying, "Stop.  
Would you like to kiss me?", right out of the blue.  She will say either 
say, "Uh - no",(which is unlikely as you don't bother performing "The 
Kiss Close" until enough indicators are present) or, "I donno" (they 
rarely say, "Yes"). "I donno" means she actually does want to but feels 
embarrassed on how to say "Yes".  So you reply, "Lets find out", then go 
in slowly and kiss her.  It's very simple and very effective.  If she 
says, "Why?", this is also a yes.  Simply reply, "It looked like you had 
something on your mind.  Would you like to kiss me?"  Wait again for 
her response.  If her response is "No" then reply, "Hey I didn't say you 
COULD.  You just had that look in your eye."

Lego: What do you do if you're interrupted? You're telling your target 
a story and she is all into it but some AFC cock-blocking idiot just 
runs up and starts screaming and yelling and you're like, "What the 
fuck?"

Mystery: Simply ask him if you can borrow his pen.  When he gives it to 
you, throw it away as you say, "Fetch."

Wakeboarder: Hahaha.  Nice!

Lego: What if he's bigger than you?

Mystery: I'd instead call him on his disruptive shit and remark, "Dude, 
what are you attempting here?"  Not good enough?  Then say, "Ladies?  
Shall we discover what adventure awaits us in another room?"

Wakeboarder: Man, none of my buds want to go to the club.

Gamer: Screw them then.

Mystery: Go alone.

Wakeboarder: I need to be made fun of for this comment but I feel like 
a weiner if I go to a club myself

Lego: Bro, your trippin'. I go solo many times. It's good actually.  
It's weird if it's a first night but if I've been there before it's cool.

Mystery: Yeah, I understand ... and yet, staying home alone will make 
you feel so much better?  Go out alone, meet some cool dudes when you 
get there (they will become your wingmen there) and then run around 
getting #'s.  Report to your fellow PUAs what happened.  Whatever happened 
to the concept, "The alphamale gets all the women?"  Shit dude, what are 
you, a mommas boy?  Do you need your hand held?  

Lego: How do you strike up conversations with guys?

Mystery: Walk up and say, "Hey dude, question for ya.  Do you know 
where a good place to score is in this city? 'Cause this place looks like a 
cock farm."

Lego: Good!  You should be able to relate to guys to disarm them.  You 
don't compete; you ELIMINATE COMPETETION.

Gamer: LOL.  Dude, the only results I've had were solo.  My friends 
psych me out too much because they never help.  Instead they just complain 
about my taking too much time.  They laugh at me or just generally piss 
me off.

Mystery: I have MUCH better results (and MUCH more fun) playing "The 
Game" alone.  It forces you to approach.  It's a great motivator.

Lego: Damn! I couldn't have put it better myself.

Gamer: Yep.

Mystery: You wont be alone for more than five minutes once you approach 
your first set anyways.  Gamer, I suggest you call them on their shit 
at some point.  Demonstrate your alphamale characteristics.

Lego: How do you continue talking?  I mean, group set dynamics are much 
different in a one one on one approach.

Mystery: Be a story-teller - THAT is the skill of the PUA.  It isn't 
SEDUCING; it's STORY-TELLING.  It is my personal belief that SS patterns 
arent as 'hypnotic' as they are 'entertaining' stories.

Wakeboarder: Sweet

Lego: Actually with the story stuff I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN.  They just 
follow that lead.

Wakeboarder: Well, I need to stop being a sackless wonder and grow some 
fuckin' balls then!  Hmm, story telling ...

Mystery: Here's an example.  "Ever been camping?  Well I was up in a 
forest up north and was hiking with some girlfriends of mine ... and we 
came along some trail and there was shit on the path.  My friends were 
like, "haaaa someone shit in the woods" and I said, "lets get the fuck 
out of here like NOW."  they thought I was just scared of shit and I 
said, "Girls, you dont get it.  This shit is still warm and its not human.  
Its bear shit.  This is a big fucking bear.  Look at the size of that 
turd."  Notice it's not sexual?  Most hot girls gets get "sex-talk" 
right away from AFCs.  NOT talking sex with them makes them question 
whether you are interested in them.  Leave them guessing until you get 
indicators of interest from them.  If they like your great personality 
(confident, humorous, etc) they will give you subtle but distinct clues.

Gamer: How do you flow from story to story?

Mystery: If there is ONE mental state you should force yourself into, 
its TALKATIVE.  Talk your fucking HEAD off.  Just go from one story 
straight into another one like a comedian does.  Ever find yourself excited 
about something and you talk and talk and talk?  THAT is what must 
happen to get a girl.  You have to ENTERTAIN them.  Look talkative yet not 
desperate.  

Gamer: Heh.

Lego: Dude, I had that going last night. You're so right.  That's an 
excellent example dude.  I was telling this story about getting harassed 
by cops or some shit.  It's a cool story but my delivery sucked and I 
was losing one of the two girls I was telling it to.  What if they fail 
to elaborate on your story?  Besides it being a bad story to begin 
with, how can you fix it on the fly?

Mystery: They don't have to interact with it.  Its a good thing to have 
flexible stories to allow for some comment but it's not nessessary.  
It's YOUR job to perform the material.  It's your audiences job to 
listen,laugh and generally be entertained.  That's it.  At the end of 10 
minutes you will see the girls digging you (positive indicators).  You then 
phase shift abruptly into the close.

Lego: HOW DO YOU PHASE SHIFT?  I've been wondering this. While I didn't 
come off as obvious in last nights case and just told her to kiss me (I 
knew she would anyway), this could have been smoother.

Alpha: Lego, you ad libbed the close?  So working on ad libbing is 
good?

Mystery: Ad libbed material is not as accurate in closing as is 
performing the well constructed and field-tested "Kiss Close" routine.  Ad 
libbing is BONUS material but don't COUNT on it.  Have your material, like 
a good comedian, prepared before performing.  This isn't "A Night at 
the Improv" fellas.

Gamer: Heh.

Mystery: All PUs have a format; a beginning, a middle and an end.  If 
you don't know what the next routine is going to be then you may end up 
with an unfortunate pregnant pause which fucks up your pacing.  You may 
end up filling the silence with the deadly, "So ... um ... what do you 
do?"  Preparation saves face.  Afterall, with your particular close, 
she could have pulled away from your trying to kiss her.  Then what?!!  
Instead, consider engaging her in enthusiastic conversation, then go 
directly into the close.  In other words, stop her in mid-sentence and 
with a curious tone, kiss close.

Wakeboarder: cool.  Lego, what indicators clued you in that she wanted 
the kiss?

Alpha: In what way can you be prepared?  If we're talking about 
story-telling in front of a random girl we just met seconds ago in a random 
place ...

Mystery: Like a good comedian, have your material prepared yet when 
onstage be prepared to dynamically omit certain routines and to add others 
on the fly.  Sometimes certain routines fit the situation better than 
others.  Have 3 to 5 alternative openers (as a comedian would) and enjoy 
performing the one you think best fits the situation will get the best 
reaction for the group you are in front of

Alpha: Gotcha now.  Can you give me a brief example of how you go about 
preparing?

Mystery: Sure.  First, find 3 openers and memorize them.  Write down a 
list of openers (just the headings of each opener to remind you).  
Next, write down some routines (the question game, the music game, the 
photo routine, the bear in the woods story, etc - all on dejanews) and then 
also memorize the kiss close and the # close.  Memorize 3 NEGs too and 
you are good to go.  With the material in your mind, you are prepared 
to work it in the field until you have the timing of the material down 
(again, just like a comedian.)

Alpha: Man, you provide some really eye-opening ideas... (just when I'm 
about to think there's nothing more to learn.

Wakeboarder: So what you're saying is have a routine set up and modify 
it to each situation? Kind of like having a PU template?

Mystery: It's ALL about format.  Know the format and stick to it.  If 
you now what the next step is in the PU, you wont feel scared.  It gets 
fun and you begin to appreciate the strategy behind it all.

Wakeboarder: Yeah like FMAC? That's a simple format.

Mystery: Yes, FMAC.  Each letter in FMAC is an abrupt phase shift.  
"FIND" means having to abruptly disturb your complacency by getting out of 
the house.  It takes effort for many people to do bother getting THIS 
FAR.  "MEET" is a HUGE abrupt change.  "There she is!  3, 2, 1, GO!"  In 
the "ATTRACT" phase, you need to go from the walk up to the TALKATIVE 
performer entertaining story-teller.  You will need A LOT of energy for 
this (enthusiasm is contagious afterall) and for many to go from 
slumping around to being in performer mode is ABRUPT.  Finally you must then 
"CLOSE"; to phase shift from humour to serious is also abrupt.  Each 
phase may FEEL awkward but it looks normal.  When a comedian finishes one 
topic and just goes into an entirely new unrelated topic, the audience 
doesn't care as long as the next topic is entertaining.

Wakeboarder: Very true.

Gamer: Cool.  I'm collecting openers and other routines off the 
layguide right now.

Alpha: Do you believe in the 80/20 'rule'?  Meaning, 80% of the quality 
women are found in 20% of the right places or connections or 
situations.

Mystery: The quality of a woman is SO subjective. Quality is difficult 
to QUANTIFY.  80% of QUALITY?  It's pointless trying to mix and match 
these concepts. INSTEAD consider that there are HOTTIES and UGs (YOU get 
to decide based on your personal criteria) and of the HOTTIES, some 
have pleasant personalities and others do not.  You cannot possibly judge 
her personality until she LIKES you.  So go out ... FIND her, MEET her, 
ATTRACT her and THEN decide if you want to CLOSE her AFTER judging her 
personality.  Judging her by the way she treats you on your approach is 
lame because particularly beautiful women all have their bitch shields 
up and running.  They have to.  They aren't planning on fucking every 
guy that says Hi to them.  The only way to get rid of the guys is to 
oftentimes offend them quickly.  It's not personal.  It's merely a learned 
strategy.  So is the "I have a boyfriend excuse, but that's a different 
story.  I also suggest CLOSING everyone just for the education.  You 
don't actually have to CALL the girls of course.  You simply get to 
practice CLOSING too.  Getting a girls number is merely an OPTION.  You 
don't have to follow up on ALL of them you know.

Keen: Heh.

Wakeboarder: Cool, judging the girls only after you have attracted 
them.  Kind of makes you approach too!  You can't say the bull shit line, 
"She's not my type, I can tell", to get you out of approaching.

Alpha: Do you have a web page?

Mystery: No, not currently.  I'm writing a book though called The 
Mystery Method.  Most of my ramblings can be found on the layguide. 

Ascence: Hey, is it true that the older we get the more money/social 
status becomes and issue?

Mystery: No matter what social status you have (or THINK you have), 
it's still something you must convey in the first 25 minutes of meeting 
her.  We ALL start equal BEFORE meeting her; all men.  The issue is, can 
we congruently convey our social status (real or not) in our 
performance?  That's OUR responsibility.  The best way is not to TELL them about 
it but rather to DEMONSTRATE it.  How?  Well, if you talk about having 
girls always falling for you for instance, it's not NEARLY as good as 
actually having a couple hot girls with you saying what a hottie you are 
infront of the target.  This is called PAWNING.

Keen: I'm going to try doing the story-telling that you talked about.  
It's really hard though. I'm a real bad storyteller.  I've been working 
on it today. that's my lesson today.

Wakeboarder: Tell them about that time you saw a fallen over manequin 
in the department store and you tripped over it.  The security guard 
thought you were trying to make it with the manequin and called you a 
little freak.

Gamer: LOL (Laughing Out Loud).

Wakeboarder: One more question for you Mystery.  What's the meaning of 
life?

Mystery: To fuck. :)

Statement of Intent (SOI)

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

Rio introduces a key part of PU: the 'Statement of Intent' (SOI)!

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:00:50 GMT
Subject: Find Stun Drag Fuck

G'day,

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com...
> As I've read the twelve-odd messages in this thread, I've been looking
> for something to take home with me, but I'm not finding it.
>
> Rio, how do you do things differently now, based on what you've said?

First thing would be to think about the close. Mystery knows his group work
perfect from how I read it, and I have been using his methods to great
success social-proof wise.

The BIG thing that clocked in my head was the need to STATE YOUR INTENTIONS
to the chick within the first minute of meeting her. I will make that my
rule from now on - as with the 3 second rule.
By this I DON'T mean "Let's fuck" or "Come to Papa baby" or any throw-away
shit like that. It has to be an honest assessment of what YOU feel capable
of doing to the chick after the "Hi" and the first round of fluff/routine
(routine preferred - something humourous). GM does this part BEAUTIFULLY,
because he does it with a sense of fun and humour - and HE KNOWS he is going
to do what he says and so does SHE!
I notice Mr. Sex states this a lot in his past posts - where AFC or shit
PUAs do approaches and talk to the chick, but never get to the point AND the
bitch can tell that the guys want to fuck but are too pussy to go for it.
Ross says something to the tune of "And maybe we could really get to like
each other" when he closes in HTGTWYDIB. I also recall that TokyoPUA did a
statement of intentions on that chick he PUed at night once who was
initially scared of him. Johnny Shack does it by when he just springs dates
on women he just met.
So there's some cross references.

The proper methodological way to get to a statement of intentions part is by
pace and lead. But the point of the matter is, you have to structure the
conversation to show interest and intent VERY soon or you will stall, chick
will get bored, feel teased, and then it's C&B time. Believe me, a LOT of
C&B experience with a LOT of HOT chicks has so far has taught me this
painful lesson.
The best way to put it is in the most honest way possible. I cannot give you
a specific example. But the idea is to get her thinking romantically about
you VERY soon. THEN you HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU SAID you would do to the chick
after DDB. (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it in the
next routine after she is comfortable with this.) If you do NOT DO what you
say you will, eventually your congruence will fuck up when the chick loses
patience. Then the chick will be confused, get scared, and bolt. If this
ever happens and the guy tries to do heavy kino or try for a fuck while the
chick is in this state - It's gonna be RAPE.

In fact, on the matter of Rape. I read in Cosmo (Hey, My chick gets fucked
often and STILL reads this!) that psychologists WARN women against guys that
say "Come to my place to see my pictures" etc. when the idea is to fuck the
chick whilst your intentions aren't known to her - because it is DATE RAPE.
Thus as Maniac found out ages ago, that GROUNDWORK is the key element to
getting the chick over to fuck. That can be done through STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS - and may not necessarily happen through Kiss closes.
You must remember this - a kiss is just a kiss........

IF that works, THEN we can reward her with more conversation and more
Mystery style routines or whatever (because she is OK with our intentions
then - thus the rewards), and THEN up the ante some more with our STATEMENT
OF INTENTIONS, building on what we established before - to get her more hot
and horny than before. So you may have started on holding her hands, now you
may progress on to hugging, kissing, fucking etc. whatever seems to be the
most logical progression from her actions towards you.

Patterns, routines, psych tests, will help greatly during the chat routines
in-between statements of intentions. Those are what set us apart from the
other PUAs out there.

Eventually we get to a point where the chick is DDB, then we can get to the
Drag (you must take the woman to fuck location, or have her so into you that
she will come to you) and Fuck part (in our world of course). The Our World
routine would then be the ULTIMATE in the STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS series
which would then lead to the deal fuck closed. It is in this one that you
state your relationship expectations and put it in "Our World"

Now the method is Find, Stun, Drag, Fuck.

The point is - FUCK all this bullshit about the woman needs to be done in
the "right way" to match her values. Something tells me now that a woman
made this comment as an attempt to rationalize her unreasonable emotions.
The values she wants ALL ALONG is #1 SEX, and to a lesser extent #2 to be
taken care of after SEX. That goes for ANY woman (thus the universality of
the whole principle). When the guy comes along as does her, she will
rationalise that the guy understood exactly what she felt. That's what some
religious women mean when they beautifully say "God knew when it was the
right time for me". In reality, they KNOW DEEP DOWN they are at the mercy of
guys and what they want to do with her. To her, that is "destiny" and no
wonder so many women are suckers for fortune-telling and the like.

Eliciting is when you want to # close or coffee close and check the girl out
for relationship potential. If it's ONS - hey! ya don't need it! If you
cannot attempt a kiss to fuck close in the given situation - you will have
to # close, but not forget to state that your intentions could well get
beyond just coffee!

The other thing - "Make no excuses for desires as a man" is THE SINGLE MOST
IMPORTANT THING (As Ross Jeffries has already said) but I had to experience
it myself to believe it. ALL of what I explained above IS USELESS in
practical application if you are trying to follow it like a script. The idea
is to GRAB that girl and NOT let her get away! ;) So guys, HOW MUCH DO YOU
WANT THAT GIRL? WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO DO?

Also on that note. BE A FUCKING MAN. Act like a guy, and don't think that
mirroring a girl completely is going to make you attractive to her. I know
from experience that the more caveman I go with chicks who KNOW my
intentions, the more they respond sexually.
Talk to chicks as if you were telling your kid brother how to play football
properly, cause your kid brother happens to be shit at football. I
especially like the way Mr. Sex talks to us on ASF - giving pointers and
what-not. I'm sure he talks to chicks exactly the same way IRL - showing
congruence all along.

You can even get around the language barrier! I just about dragged a sexy
Jgirl in a bikini off the beach while babbling to them in English! A
language they didn't even understand! I did that enough and with a smile,
that the chick went DDB and ready to GO when I took her hand. Had it not
been for the cockblock!
Somebody must have taught the "Iranian from hell" this shit!

The way I think about it is much like caveman sex. You see the hot chick,
you bang her on the head with your club, you take her to your cave, you root
her. Thus :- Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Just a bit more aggressive than Find Meet Attract Close, but that's the best
way I could describe what this ugly-as-fuck PUA was doing.

These were the attitudes that I had when I was only just starting to pull
women at incredible speeds while on holiday.

The other point is on Objection handling in regards to the STATEMENT OF
INTENTIONS. What I learned from the PUA I met, is that you fight chick
bullshit with your own bullshit - with a slightly authoritive tone (no need
to REALLY get pissed).
For example :- The chicks said "We have to get to our car" and were ready to
leave
The Playboy said "You can't leave anyway because the gates are closed" even
though the gates aren't closed.
Thus this covers handling chick bullshit - on the phone as well as in real
life.
And one chick on another seduction board I read often typed something to the
tune that she wants to be with a guy that can bullshit his way into her
pants.

So there you go. Find Stun Drag Fuck.
Stun is the hardest.

> There are reasons why most of us step through seduction so gingerly.
> We know that saying or doing one wrong thing can blow up the seduction.
> As far as I can tell, letting her know you intend to fuck her before
> you fuck her is one of those things.  Another reason is that women
> won't tell you when they're ready to fuck.

But DDB does tell all!
That single most common fuckup is what is called LACK OF CONGRUENCE
(definition courtesy of Mr. Sex). Just like when I called that chick I met
yesterday "my friend" in front of her. Doing that is a sign of weakness.
Chicks can get away with having words out of congruence with their actions,
but guys CANNOT.

> You say that when you "lead girls on" and tease them too much, you look
> easy and they hate you.  But this insight doesn't make it any easier to
> recognize when you're "leading them on".  The window between when a
> woman is receptive to a close and when you've stalled her is short, and
> spotting it seems to be harder than superstring theory.  The answer
> seems to be to make hundreds of approaches, and very slowly improve
> through experience.

Well you have body language and other subtle pointers. Plus we are adding
all the time to our STATEMENT OF INTENTIONS in order to find a barrier and
cut off point. I don't doubt that noticing DDB when you have the intuition
becomes easier.

  The one concrete thing I get out of your post is
> that next time two HBs want a foursome with you and your LTR, you'll be
> more likely to recognize it.  Or maybe the situation will be different
> enough that you won't.

I fucked that up because I KNOW those chicks wanted me to go with them, and
I over-teased them and didn't capitulate and then state my intentions to
have a foursome. They would have been up for it!
That's when the Playboy showed up to show me the shit, and then beat me
hands-down in a round of THE GAME. ;)

> You also said, "Now I realise more than fucking EVER what a chick
> wants. She wants a guy to go and GET her, make her feel wanted, and
> then have the shit fucked out of her!"  But you agreed with another
> poster that you can't just walk up to a woman and say "Let's fuck."
> So what's your new insight here?

It's a no-brainer. Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction (after the
earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in not objecting, he
went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the Drag phase if they were DDB.
You cannot start the seduction with a statement of intention that skips the
buildup - unless the chick is THAT FUCKING HORNY and shameless.
Chicks want to know that you care about them as human beings and not just
sex objects. Thus neutral conversation gets smattered in between, and the
final statement of intentions clearly shows what his intentions are so SHE
KNOWS that you care about her feelings - in that way.

The Playboy I met even went to see a chick he had a threesome with the next
day (cause she was feeling a bit alone). This guy was no cheap "Player"
(which he pointed out in his great Our world styled close routine on this
9). You could tell he cared enough too.

> Have you figure out a better way to know when a woman is ready to
> be closed?  Or a faster way to get her to want to fuck?  Or a way to
> let her know your intentions without scaring her off?  What's the
> difference between your approach now and your approach before you went
> to Guam?  It sounds like you feel you understand things better than
> you did before, but I can't figure out what the new understanding is.

Well, now you have your answer.
Mind you, I'm only getting the framework now that I sit down and try and
explain what I am now doing. This shit became automatic when I had the whole
experience of witnessing this guy and learning from him.

Any questions or comments? Fire away....

Rio
-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <90eati$gpt@nnrp1.deja.com> <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com> <90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com>
Subject: Re: Find Stun Drag Fuck

Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 10:04:46 GMT

Jonathan Ashton  wrote in message
news:90i82p$iao@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <63JW5.205t1.56373@nnrp.gol.com>,
>   "Rio"  wrote:
> > Well, now you have your answer.
>
> Yeah, I understand much better now.  Thanks for writing it down.
>
> > Any questions or comments? Fire away....
>
> So I get the abstract idea now:  Make some sort of Statement Of
> Intentions (SOI) to a woman relatively early, and then act congruently
> with it.

More or less, that's it.
The thing is, after dropping routines - get to it or the chick gets confused
and drops out.
Mystery had the right idea with his routines and intros. BUT if you fail to
State your intentions - you can stall things and stale her out. Then it will
be your fault when it appears that the routines don't work! They may have
worked, but she has given up on you as a partner already. You teased too
much.

> Like most people, though, I don't really understand any abstract idea
> until I've seen two or three concrete examples; i.e. HOW to make that
> SOI.

Ross Jeffries has already covered how to do this with his NLP pacing and
leading. I'm just giving a name to the end result of doing that (SOI -
Statement of Intention).

SOIs are SO important to women. They want to know where they stand. Women
you are with and haven't SOIed will think to themselves :- "What am I to
him"?
With my LTR which I sloppily SOIed, she annoyed me for ages if I was her
boyfriend or not. I hadn't said, and was therefore walking thin ice.
That drove her NUTS.

Now, I guess I could show you some fake examples of stuff that you could
launch into your PU - but the reason why I'm not going to do that is because
if ANYBODY creates a list of them - we're going to get the problem that AFC
men ALREADY have with PU Lines. That is, throwing meaningless words into a
conversation and then not being able to back them up.
Either that, or we will develop a single street pickup routine which men
will use the world over with great success before women cotton on to it.
When it comes to SOI, DIY (damn all these acronymns!).

An example of SOI is what I said to the chick I tried to PU on the weekend.
I paced it to the point where we are talking about where we lived, and I
found out that she lived close. Then I said "That's good, so we can get
together really easy and have some fun then."
If she had been far away - no problem "That's too bad. I'll have to travel
far to get together with you and have fun"
If she lives on Mars - no problem "Wow! You live out there! I'll have to
build a rocket to come and see you after you go back there!"

So there you go. Who needs to be excessively GM?

> You gave the example of GM style.  Yep, GM makes a pretty clear SOI.
> I don't think a "recovering nice guy" like me could do GM congruently,
> though.

I have done it once successfully and it Suuure works. But yes, it's hard to
work things up to that because you skip a lot of buildup steps. The flirting
has to take place in a sexual level rather than a much safer level. That is
risky.
That's what I mean when by saying "Let's Fuck" you run the risk of having to
flirt at such a high level where you can fuck up easily. Not that it's
impossible of course.
NEGs (which I forgot to mention before) help especially in the
objection,flirt phase. This phase is like the part where the dog chases
after the bitch to try and fuck her, and the bitch keeps running. The thrill
of the chase!

> You mention TokyoPUA and Johnny Shack references, but it would take
> a lot of searching/guessing to find the specific examples you have in
> mind.  And I don't understand your Ross example - "And maybe we could
> really get to like each other" sounds like a pretty vague SOI; maybe
> I'd understand what you mean if I knew the context?

Search for stuff on the archived layguide for stuff about Johnny Shack. He
also has an online book. Ross has his old free book around the place. Search
Formhandle for TokyoPUA's posts.
By the way, I even went as far as reading ALL of Mystery's decent posts as
well.

> The only example of an SOI I see in your posts is this one from Guam
> PUA:
>
> > As for going for the fuck close? Forget your sexual accelerators.
> > This guy said the whole shit in plain English - and I saw him say
> > this all to to a chick. He basically said that he was a playboy, but
> > not a pickup artist (to frame the idea that he won't fuck and dump),
> > and that when he had sex with the chick (Framing it as if it's going
> > to happen) that she should just enjoy it for fun and not worry about
> > it too much because it's just their private thing (our world style
> > routine), and that he was not an easy guy in reality - that he was
> > quite selective in who he chooses for sex (so he doesn't look like a
> > meat-market man).
> > He said all this straight faced to a chick, and while I was watching
> > the chick he did this on - she was trancing out and playing with her
> > hair. It was totally evil.
>
> So my questions...
>
> Have you ever done a SOI to kiss a girl and not had her object?  If so,
> what did you say?  Have you ever done a SOI to fuck a girl and not had
> her object?  If so, what did you say?  Hell, do you remember the exact
> words of any SOI you've ever said?

I gave you an example above of an SOI above (where I told the chick that we
would hang out in the future). No doubt we can refine the whole shit a lot
better in the future.
And yes. I think everyone at some stage has done an SOI, or the body
language has been good enough to get her into that zone where she KNOWS
maybe at 70% where your intentions are, with or without any routines to help
snag the chick, and the chick has put up some token resistance. The purpose
of the resistance of course, is to set the scene for the chase you know will
end in a fuck if you can just reel the bitch in. You will eventually do it
as long as you have remained congruent throughout.

> What other kinds of SOIs would you use in the buildup?  Tell her you're
> going to give her a neck massage?  (I'm sure that question sounds
> clueless; but I really think the meat is in the details.)

Well pace it:-
"Have you ever felt like having a neck massage? I think you need one, so
I'll give you one"
Sometimes the more direct your SOIs are, the harder she will force you to
keep pushing them.
So let's say the chick flirts and says "Why do you want to? I don't need
one!"
So we have to SOI her again in the second sentence in this example :- "Well
you haven't had one of my massages that can make you feel good all over. Now
relax....."

The idea is to trap the chick at all costs with your intentions that you can
carry out - until she can't get away.
Even "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" "No I can't!" "Yes you can!" fights - if
that's what it comes down to - can win you the day if you persist and not
let her win! Verbal arguments can always be solved with kino - cause you as
the guy are STRONGER. I don't mean hit her, but mauling is OK as long as she
is enjoying it! ;)

Persistance is VERY important. Of course, you may want to dump the chick
after the fuck if she doesn't drop the shit because she is too much work to
obtain sex from in the long run. Just give her an ultimatum "Cut the shit or
you will be lonely!"

At the same time, you can get trapped if you say an SOI that you can't
possibly keep. So watch what you promise to do!
Saying shit like "I'm going to buy you a Rolls Royce!" when she KNOWS you
can't afford it is an extreme example of a shit SOI. There goes your trust
and congruency with that one.

> And as for one other comment you made:
>
> > (E.g. If you want to start things off gently by holding her hand,
> > tell her a scene where want to be holding her hand - and then do it
> > in the next routine after she is comfortable with this.)
>
> You mean you tell her a story about some guy you know who held some
> girl's hand?  Or what?  Methinks I really don't understand here.

You can do that to get her thinking about holding someone's hand - and once
she is feeling it, you may be able to slip in the kino and get away with it.
At least, your chances will be better.

> > Is sex ALL you bringing to the table? That's why he
> > coupled GM styled intention pointers further into the seduction
> > (after the earlier G-rated ones), and then when they succeeded in
> > not objecting, he went to Mystery routines as a reward OR to the
> > Drag phase if they were DDB.
>
> I would LOVE to see these SOIs written down.

Done as above. But make your own!
I re-explained the "Let's Fuck" problem a bit better above as well.

> So here's my deal:  I want to see more examples of SOIs so I can take
> them apart, because I really suspect that the exact wording is crucial.
>
> For example:
>
> GM gets away with his SOIs because they're exaggerated to absurdity,
> and thus they're both funny and unlikely (at least as stated).
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she
> doesn't slap him.

I think it's more of a case of the GM SOIs that fail, he can write them off
as being jokes. That keeps him on track and congruent.
BUT the risk of failure is very high if he doesn't cover his tracks.

> Guam PUA gets away with his SOI (quoted above) because he's talking
> about chicks in general, and not overtly about the particular chick.
> This puts a little distance between the SOI and the girl, so she's
> not pressured to make a decision right then.

This is the all important point. With some SOIs (and especially with
ambiguities in NLP) the SOIs are not in your face, BUT they are vague enough
to get the point across and then judge for a positive reaction from her or
not. However, the vagueness is simply a shot from 50 metres as opposed to a
shot from point-blank. Just make sure you hit the target.
The danger with point-blank SOIs is they are risky in so far as if you say a
dumb one you can't,won't, or don't want to carry out like "I'm going to take
you on holiday!" as opposed to an NLP shot from 50 metres which describes a
holiday and builds on it. "Have you ever been on holiday with someone
special?....."

> Am I on the right track here?  Are there other ways to word SOIs that
> get around direct resistance?  More examples would be appreciated.

You should check out patterning, but remember, a shot from point-blank is
better than 50 metres. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight
line. There are pros and cons of both styles of course.
You can take the short path across the dangerous ravine, or the long path
around it.

> I gotta say, this whole idea of SOIs is new to me.  Maybe other PUAs
> in this group have been using them without ever realizing/stating the
> importance of them?

I just gave a name to it. People have done this stuff before and I'm just
giving it a name to help explain what I'm doing.

And no, Ray can't trademark this either and claim it's his. We have
discussed why this is enough on ASF. He's filtered anyway and I can't see
his verbal shit.

> Thanks,
> Ash

Thanks for the questions. They help challenge me in trying to explain myself
better.

Rio

-------

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: Clearing SOI's up
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:15:23 GMT

Maniac,

I came up with the SOI concept after studying what the Guam Playboy did to
chicks. I wish I could have spent longer down there to learn more off this
guy. Oh well, I just need to save up to go again.

SOI (Statements of intention/interest) were comments that the Guam Playboy
made a lot (I assume you read my report on that place - It's nanpa
paradise!). What he did then was control the flirting that followed after
baiting her with a show of interest. He did this by offering a challenge -
when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines, talking about
parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he did
another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
direct. ;)

Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain to the
posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time. He could
even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn it into
a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for this guy.

But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's uptight
self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities, physical
light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people, etc. The
Playboy used plenty of variations.

Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of reach of
the target. Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull it out
again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then take it
out again........ Mindfucking!
Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
mindfucked.

I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she lived and
then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see you.
It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"
(Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in this)
She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a matter
of metres away.

The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-

- Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good things
about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful tour
guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big on
logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good thing), he
just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what he was
doing. I had to observe.
- SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the chick
(paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions going
and her ideas racing. I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out initially when
I wouldn't get to the point.
"What do you look for in guys?" would be sufficient enough as a question to
hint at what you are after (as you have found out yourself Maniac). Starting
off on a topic about guys and relationships usually brings chicks out, but
asking "Do you have a BF?" sucks.
This Ross Jeffries inspired SOI "The more you laugh, the more you'll be
attracted to interesting people......now with me" is an ambiguous SOI.
- Before she could knock him down for any comment, he would then be a
challenge and say something like "I'm not easy", "we don't know each other
well enough yet", "but what would I know, right? ;)","I need to feel passion
first", "Yeah, you know what I'm saying". These basically FORCE the chick to
continue the flirting (initiated by the SOI) along the lines that HE wanted
(and the lines that chicks SAY they want!).
By saying that he "needed time" and "not being easy", the chick already
attracted to him would then come onto him.

Most of the time the chicks would laugh becuase they'd get stuck for a smart
comeback. And he just kept this up, alternating back to party and fun
routines, until he got to the "sex-SOI-Our World-But I'm no sleaze"routine
which would then DDB the target to fuck - or get her ready for it next time
they met.
Negative commands also work great here to spark challenge. Just like I did
with my now LJBF ex-LTR "I'm not going to fuck you".

I've noted in my past failures (too many to count) that when I have dropped
SOI hints - the chicks have taken the flirting into areas which were
impossible for me to control - fucking me up and making me look stupid.
Especially in clubs where chicks do this like child's play to anyone who
"hits" on them. They use their irrational chick logic to fuck themselves
(and you) up. If that happens, your PU is history.
We can't give the women control, especially not in flirting, because they
aren't the ones that are trying to do PU. It's their job as "virtuous" women
to try and get away from PU, or try to fuck our PU up.

Svengali also said in his MLTR theory something which rings home on this. He
said (and I quote):-

"Seventh: If you don't give a woman something to be pissed about every
now and then, she'll find something on her own, and that will be harder
to get out of (because it will be of her making and criteria, not
yours)."

That is also the point of what we should be doing in flirting. To trap the
chick into going along with what your flirting and accepting your advances
(by means of non-objection) while getting her horny at the same time. That
way we avoid snappy comebacks because you've already "Handled her objections
before they came up" (That's something I learnt as a salesman)
This causes the chick to have her token resistance stall out - and puts us
in control.
GM does this with his sex jokes, but he slams any possible retort with "Just
Kidding" thus the chick can't say anything and the flirting goes by GMs
rules and not hers.

Take Mystery's "Nice nails" NEG for example.
He starts off with an SOI "Nice nails". This in and of itself is a
compliment. If he stopped here, the chick would come back (if she were a
bitch) with some smart ass comment to get rid of Mystery.

BUT, he then puts up the CHALLENGE before she gets a chance to reply (like
GM with "Just kidding"). Seemingly innocent too. "Are they real?"

Now the chick is stuck. What's going on? He's complimented me, and now he's
knocking me down! What is he doing? I must stick around for this! What can I
say? Maybe I'll just laugh it off...!? er..?
(Note, some REAL bitches when stalled will look angry at you and say "Huh?"
to which it's GM to the rescue! with "Hide your pleasure!")

So, couple this kind of flirting with lots of things to get her feeling
horny (patterns, sex talk, whatever), and add lots of personality conveying
things thrown in for good measure - and the chick is sufficiently stunned -
and ready for the drag and fuck stage.

Oh, and the Guam Playboy is an ugly fucker. Kipp's seen the pictures.
Looks don't matter for shit. I have great respect for all the older PUAs.

I must get up to Tokyo to see you guys real soon. The inaka sucks.
We can experiment with this some more then. I've been getting rusty since I
got back from Guam.
What I do know is that when this guy's method does work, it is KILLER. We
get Mr. Smooth status and KCs like crazy.

Rio
-------
Dictate the flirting

 wrote in message news:91f5e8$dpn@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Re: SOI's
>
> Rio..
>
> You are on to something big here..
> This is a discovery!
> I will incorporate this.
>
> Please give more specific examples though. I get
> what you are saying, but not yet really how you would
> apply it. .
>
>
> Fucking excellent thread!
>
>
> Maniac
> http://www.pickupguide.com
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

---

From: "Rio" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More on SOIs
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 06:17:41 GMT

THIS IS RIO TYPING IN CAPS. I'M NOT YELLING!

Comments in text below.
After New years, I WILL be ready, and we will hit
the streets.

GREAT. I HAVEN'T BEEN DOING MUCH PU UNTIL YESTERDAY (1 SOLID # FROM A 9 AND
A KC FROM ANOTHER 9) - THUS THIS POST AS I TEST OUT MY THEORY. I HAVE A
FRIEND WHO WOULD LIKE TO COME ALONG. HE'S ALREADY BRIEFED AND VERY
EXPERIENCED IN SCREWING WOMEN IN JAPAN. HE'S READ THE PICKUP GUIDE ALREADY.
HE'S EVEN BEEN SO KIND TO INTRODUCE ME TO SOME WOMEN WHO WANT MERCY FUCKS.
HE ALSO KNOWS SOME GOOD "hole in the wall" PLACES AROUND RAPPONGI WITH LOTS
OF WOMEN (SO HE SAYS).

BTW, Rio; re: 'nomad' player.. mine was fucked up, returned
it for an exchange, new one works..

IT'S SURE BEATS A TAPE RECORDER, DOESN'T IT?

First, this is brilliant material, it is going on the
website, and is core to successful PU I think. It IS what
smooth was doing.. I couldnt identify it, but now it has
been named, and described, I recognize this.. and yes, it
will be TOTALLY lethal..

THANKS. EVERY SUCCESSFUL PUA HAS BEEN DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS (OF ONE
STYLE OR ANOTHER) TO BED WOMEN. I WENT OUT AND USED THIS FRAME YESTERDAY
WITH INTERESTING AND POSITIVE RESULTS.....

HOWEVER, I MUST SAY IT'S HARD TO GIVE SPECIFIC EXAMPLES UNLESS THEY ARE
SITUATIONALLY BASED. FOLLOWING THE LOGIC HOWEVER, AND USING IT GIVEN THE
SITUATION STILL BRING RESULTS. I WILL DESCRIBE SOME OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN
DOING WITH IT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER FOR THE LIFE OF ME WHAT EXACTLY THE GUAM
GUY SAID. (I ONLY RECORDED A SMALL SAMPLE OF OUR CHAT WITH MY MP3 PLAYER.
NONE OF HIS NANPA HOWEVER) WHAT I DO KNOW, IS THAT HE FOLLOWED THIS
STRUCTURE WHICH I HAVE DESCRIBED TO VERY SOME GOOD EFFECTS.

I ASSUME YOU READ MY ORIGINAL STORY ON THE GUAM TRIP.
IF SO, MY REPLY WILL MAKE MORE SENSE.

In article ,
  "Rio"  wrote:
> He did this by offering a challenge -
> when he finished doing that once he went back to fun routines,
talking about

Examples? ?

OK, HE MADE SOME KIND OF COMPLIMENT OR SUGGESTED SOME KIND OF ACTIVITY
(OFTENTIMES WITH SEXUAL OR ROMANTIC UNDERTONES) THAT THEY COULD DO TOGETHER.
(LIKE HANG TIGHT TO EACH OTHER OF THE JET POWERED BANANA BOAT) AND THEN
FOLLOWED THAT WITH A REASON WHY HE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT. KINDA LIKE
IN SALES, A SALESMAN WOULD SAY "FOR ONE DAY ONLY SALE", WELL HE WAS LIKE "SO
YOU SHOW UP AT SUCH AND SUCH A TIME, OTHERWISE I WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW YOU A
GOOD TIME AND I'LL TAKE SOMEONE ELSE" (a takeaway)
SO IN ORDER TO CONTINUE THE FLIRTING, THE CHICK WOULD HAVE TO SHOW UP. HE
WOULD THEN (AFTER HAVING COMPLETED A SOI ROUTINE) SIT BACK AND WATCH THE
CHICK FOLLOW THROUGH. HE WOULD OFTENTIMES BE ABLE TO CONTINUE A CONVERSATION
WITHOUT STALLING - AND MIDWAY HE WOULD SOI HER AGAIN AND DO THE SAME ROUTINE
WITH SOMETHING ELSE. I NEVER SAW HIM GET IT ON WITHIN 20 MINUTES, BUT I SAW
WHAT HE DID TO THE CHICK WITH THIS ROUTINE AND I COULD TELL THAT HE COULD
HAVE IF HE WANTED TO. HE DIDN'T LOOK DESPERATE AT ALL.

> parties on the island, jokes, sex personality tests, etc. before he
did
> another SOI - staring out as indirect and ambiguous, before being VERY
> direct. ;)

Examples ? ?

THIS GUY HAD A STRONG ELEMENT OF GM. THE SEX PERSONALITY TEST IS DOCUMENTED
IN MY POST ON THIS GUY (IT'S ABOUT ICE CREAM) - BUT AFTERWARDS UNLIKE GM, NO
COMMENT OF "JUST KIDDING". HE WOULD THEN SAY SOMETHING ELSE TO DISTRACT
ATTENTION OR PLAY "PRETEND AFC" LIKE "BUT I'M NOT EASY" OR "BUT I DON'T KNOW
YOU THAT WELL"
ALL THE MEANWHILE, GETTING THE CHICK HORNY AND CREATING A CHALLENGE.

> Basically what I think I have come up with, through trying to explain
to the
> posters that asked me about him, is a flirting construction kit.

Examples ? ?

MANIAC, YOU'RE STARTING TO OVERUSE CUT AND PASTE LIKE NYC WHEN HE RIPS APART
AFCS WITH THESE "EXAMPLES??" COMMENTS.........

(QUOTE NYC)
"YOU ARE BEING USED. SHE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU. SHE DOESN'T INTEND
TO FUCK YOU. SHE IS FUCKING OTHER MEN THAT SHE FINDS SEXUALLY ATTRACTIVE.
YOU ARE FOOTING THE BILL FOR HER INTERNATIONAL WHORING. STOP."

HA HA HA ;)

> The Guam Playboy NEGged a LOT - and he got away with it every time.

Such as ? ?

WISH I COULD REMEMBER NOW. BUT WHAT I DID SEE IS HIM COMPLIMENTING LOTS OF
JAP CHICKS AND NOT GETTING ANY NASTY REACTION BACK FROM THEM - BECAUSE THEY
WERE SO SHY AND INEXPERIENCED. SO THE CHICKS JUST LAUGHED BECAUSE THEY HAD
NO BITCH SHIELD OF ANY TYPE.
WHERE HE DID ENCOUNTER A SHIELD, HE WOULD ATTACK HER "NASTY" PERSONALITY -
AND HER LACK OF ABILITY TO BE GRACEFUL WITH COMPLIMENTS.

IN THAT SENSE, HE WOULD ALWAYS SIZE THE CHICK UP AS IF HE WAS LOOKING FOR
LTR POTENTIAL (but we know of course, that LTR was never the plan)

He could
> even tell chicks AFC things like they were beautiful, and then turn
it into
> a NEG if he wanted. That's what over 20 years of daily PU did for
this guy.

Examples ? ?

"YOU'RE REALLY CUTE....(pause to check response)... BUT I DON'T KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT YOU. (SAID NEGATIVELY OR NOT DEPENDING ON HER RESPONSE). SO
WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY?"

> But the NEG is only one kind of flirting (used for dumping a girl's
uptight
> self image). There are other kinds, such as using ambiguities,
physical
> light-handed slapping and pushing kino, playing tricks on people,
etc.

Such as ? ?

I'VE STOPPED USING KINO IMMIDIATELY NOW, AND SAVING IT FOR WHEN I'VE LANDED
AN SOI ROUTINE AND CAUGHT THE CHICK OUT. WHEN SHE HAS LAUGHED, I SLAP HER
GENTLY.
IT'S ANCHORING.

AS FOR TRICKS ON PEOPLE.... STUPID ONES. I WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU THEM IN
PERSON.

The
> Playboy used plenty of variations.

Like what ? ?

GIVEN THE SITUATION, HE WOULD TRY DIFFERENT WAYS TO GET HER THINKING
ROMANTICALLY ABOUT BOTH OF THEM TOGETHER. HE WOULD USE WHATEVER WAS IN HIS
SURROUNDINGS, OR THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION, TO PACE AND LEAD THE CHICK INTO
IMAGINING SUCH A SCENARIO.
THEN HE WOULD YANK IT AWAY BY GIVING SOME KIND OF EXCUSE (LIKE HE WAS BUSY,
HE DIDN'T THINK SHE COULD DO IT) OR HE WOULD PLAY AFC (I DON'T KNOW YOU, I
NEED TO BE IN LOVE FIRST, I'M NOT EASY, I'M NOT A PLAYER, I NEED TIME, I AM
REALLY PICKY, I HAVE BEEN HURT BEFORE, I HAVE A GF)

> Flirting is this:- One drops the SOI, and then pulls it away out of
reach of
> the target.

For example ? ?

I REALLY FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, BUT I NEED TIME.

THE MAGIC WORD IS but

 Then gives another SOI, and then pulls it away again. Like with
> our words, we put images of sex and romance in their heads, then pull
it out

Like ? ?

HIS BRAVEST SOI WAS THE ONE WHERE HE SAID STRAIGHT OUT THAT HE WAS GOING TO
FUCK A CHICK. I WITNESSED THE WHOLE THING. HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO FUCK
HER but (AND THEN HE WENT PRETEND AFC) I'M VERY PICKY, I'M NOT A PUA
BECAUSE THOSE GUYS TEASE WOMEN WITH BULLSHIT, MAKE EMPTY PROMISES, FUCK
THEM, AND THEN DUMP THEM. I AM A PLAYBOY. I LOVE WOMEN AND I DON'T WANT YOU
TO GET TOO ATTACHED TO ME AFTER WE HAVE SEX.

> again, then out it in, then take it out, then put it back in, then
take it
> out again........ Mindfucking!

Example please . .

OK, ANOTHER ONE:-   I WANT TO KISS YOU, BUT SOMEHOW I DON'T THINK YOU LIKE
KISSING.
(btw - this would be an SOI fairly advanced in conversation)
NOTE ALSO THAT THERE'S AN EMBEDDED COMMAND IN THE 2ND PART OF THE ROUTINE.
THAT BEING "YOU LIKE KISSING"
EVIL ISN'T IT?

> Once the chick is confused and teased enough, she is DDB and safely
> mindfucked.

how? describe this. . what exactly did he do?

WELL, THE CHICK THAT HE SAID THE "I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU" SPEECH TO, JUST
STARTED DOING ALL THE TRADEMARK BODYLANGUAGE. SHE JUST SAT THERE STUNNED
AND PLAYED WITH HER HAIR. LIKE A RABBIT LOOKING INTO BRIGHT LIGHTS. THE GUAM
GUY SAID ALL OF IT WITH A SERIOUS FACE TOO, SO SHE COULDN'T LAUGH OFF WHAT
HE WAS SAYING.

THE WAY HE WORKED DIDN'T SEEM TO BE ONE OF "ATTRACTION" PER SE. HE WOULD
EVENTUALLY CORNER THE CHICK AND FLIRT WITH HER UNTIL SHE COULD TAKE NO MORE.
UNTIL SHE GOT STUNNED

> I did a PU once on a chick using the SOIs. I found out where she
lived and
> then said "Oh that's not far from my place, so I can come down to see
you.
> It's a pity I am so busy it won't happen today"

This is good. .

THAT'S A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE WHOLE THEORY IS ABOUT. MORE
IMPORTANTLY IS THAT IT WORKED.

> (Note that there is a bit of future pacing and presuppositioning in
this)
> She lapped it up and took my kino from there - despite the BF being a
matter
> of metres away.
>
> The structure for the Guam Playboy routine went like this:-
>
> - Fun routine or opener (ala Mystery) - some basic fluff - all good
things
> about himself, what he could do for the women (he played the helpful
tour

Examples ? ?

READ SOME OF MYSTERY'S OPENERS!
TYPICALLY OFF THE WALL STUFF. WELL, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GUAM'S CULTURE
AND PARTIES AND STUFF - FOR ALL THE TOURISTS, ALL THIS NEW INFO TO THEM IS
PRETTY OFF THE WALL.
HE WOULD TELL THE CHICKS ABOUT SOME PARTY WHERE THEY WOULD DIG A HUGE PIT
AND THROW ANIMALS ON IT IN A BIG FEAST WITH A BONFIRE AND DANCING - AND THEN
BRANCHED OUT AND TALKED ABOUT DANCING AND OTHER EXOTIC/EROTIC STUFF.

> guide). Be "Disgustingly" Charming! as he put it. The guy wasn't big
on

Like ? ?

THOSE WERE HIS EXACT WORDS. HE RELIED ON GM A LOT IN THE LATTER PART OF HIS
SEDUCTIONS.

> logically drawing out routines for what he did (which is a good
thing), he
> just went and DID this.... thus he couldn't really explain to me what
he was
> doing. I had to observe.

Yep, he's got experience.. I rarely consciously follow ManiacPlan
anymore.. just it spews out naturally.. learning PU is like learning
a foreign language/lingo.. once you get it, its natural..

I'VE BEEN LEARNING TO PLAY AFC IN MY SEDUCTIONS, AND IT HAS BEEN WORKING
REALLY WELL!

> - SOI. He said something that hinted that he was interested in the
chick
> (paced and lead from his opener conversation). This got her emotions
going

Example?  How?

OK, ANOTHER ONE.

"WOULDN'T IT BE GREAT TO SPEND TIME TOGETHER OVER COFFEE? IT'S SUCH A PITY I
HAVE TO GO TO SOME MEETINGS LATER ON, SO WE WILL PROBABLY HAVE NO TIME TO
SEE EACH OTHER EVER AGAIN BEFORE YOU GO BACK."
(WAIT FOR RESPONSE)
"BUT LET ME KNOW YOUR NUMBER ANYWAY...WHO KNOWS I MAY HAVE TIME."
(might want to save this one after you have dropped several other
SOIs)

> and her ideas racing.

Like what? which ideas? be specific please. .

ROMATIC AND/OR SEXUAL ONES.
HE WOULD START OFF ON ROMANTIC ONES AND MAKE THEM INCREASINGLY SEXUAL UNTIL
HE HIT A SEXUAL FANTASY OF HERS THAT WOULD DDB HER.
LET'S SAY "HOLDING HANDS" OR "SPENDING QUALITY TIME TOGETHER" OR "BEING
CLOSE" AND EVENTUALLY LEADING THAT INTO "TOUCHING BODIES" AND "KISSING" TO
"FUCKING" OBVIOUSLY.
A LOT OF TIME DISTORTION SOIs.

> I have found this CRITICAL if the chick is going to
> stay interested in you for too long. I bored many chicks out
initially when
> I wouldn't get to the point.
[rest deleted]

Rio, this is great stuff. Somehow I understand it.. but I need
examples of it so I can put it together as something I can try
in the field. Do you remember any specifics from this guy?

WELL, WE CAN ALWAYS WAIT FOR THE OFF-SEASON AND GO TO GUAM WITH A VCR AND
MEET THIS GUY (YOU'LL ONLY NEED ABOUT 40,000 YEN FROM TOKYO FOR A 2 DAY
TRIP) OR NEXT TIME WE MEET IN TOKYO WE CAN DO MORE STREET STUFF AND I CAN
SHOW YOU WHAT I KNOW. (I HADN'T FULLY DEVELOPED THE THEORY UNTIL AFTER MY
NIGHT OUT WITH KIPP - I OQed TOO MUCH AND FAILED TO PLACE ANY CHALLENGES
AFTER MY SOIs THAT NIGHT)
THE GUAM PLAYBOY WAS A GRANDMASTER OF STREET PU - HIS WEAKNESS WAS THAT HE
WAS A GREEDY TEAMPLAYER WITH WINGMEN.

If so, please fill in the above spaces where I ask.. it is very
important if this is to work.

Rio
-------

Earlobe Kino!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com


Earlobe Kino!




From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:43:25 2000
From: "Scott Phillips" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino

A private party. 2 HBs in the mix. The first, a 9, is 25 but looks in her
late teens: big clear eyes, like liquid moonlight :)  We have common
interests regarding diet and stuff and are genuinely interested in each
other it seems, but she gets bailed up by some other guy for the rest of the
evening preventing even a number close.

The second I'd met before. Easily 8.5 or better. Very cute South Aussie
accent. Bottle blonde. Smart. She and her friend come with me and my mates
to the pub to see a band, which finishes as we arrive and the next one is
really hardcore death metal. It is very loud. Her lips touch my ear as we
talk occasionally which quite turns me on. We end up sitting in a booth next
to each other. Perfect. She mentions the fact that we have to talk so close
and I tell her it is fine because her touching my ear with her mouth really
turns me on, then say:
"Can you just bite my ear a bit?"
"Do you mean like stick my tongue in your ear?"
"No, just my ear lobe. I really like it."
So, she does. My insides invert and curl with the feeling and I can feel a
woody in the making. Then I say "okay" and do the same to her. She is
obviously melting. I stop, look her in the eyes, then slowly kiss her on the
mouth. She responds hungrily. From there on out it is bulk hand kino and
lots of kissing. We both have to cool it down. I mention that it would be
good to be somewhere where we do not have to exercise so much self control.

I end up driving her and her friend home (friend first of course) and
spending some more time at her place kissing and hugging her before going
home. She has a few present issues that I could not work around, but we plan
to. I said she could give me a ring and eventually she asked if I'd given
her my number already.  I hadn't.  So I did.  She knows where my house is
because she recognised my car and I'd already explained exactly.

The point of this post is really the kino.  ASF, I take my hat off to you.
This is rocking my world at present.

Pilate.




-------

From scott@glebesystems.com.au Tue Mar 28 06:44:37 2000
From: "Pilate" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
References:  <015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
Subject: Re: Pilate Reports - Ear lobe kino


Craig  wrote in message
news:015c8f92.fbfe4e4d@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com...
> You just gave me a fuckin sweet idea...Everyone knows girls get
> turned on by guys kissing their ears, so I think a great way to
> initiate kino would be to do to her what she did to you!
> "Accidently" brush your lips up against her ear while your
> talking to her.  I love it...your a fuckin genius!

Really?  And I didn't even know it.

The point is that it really only works well in loud environments.  I guess
you could be telling her a secret, but you'd have to make it convincing.

The other thing to note is that it seemed to work well because I made it a
topic of conversation, so that I could tease her with the idea a little.  As
you are turning the idea around, if she pulls away you could ask her "What
is it?  Am I turning you on?"  Yes = great, go for the lobes.  No = "okay,
does this turn you on?" and go for the lobes.

Some chicks actually don't get off by their ear lobes as such, but will
become apoplectic when having their neck kissed just below the ear.  So ask
her.  "Are you more of a neck girl?"

Pilate.

Using the ‘wordgame’ to PU!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com


Word Game PU!


Date Posted: 2000/02/26 06:56:38 PM EST
Author: identity_x 
Subject: Comments and report

It?s been a while since I last posted here. I see Ray is still around,
and Vince is still kicking about as much ass as anyone could! GO
VINCE!!! :)

First of all, I just wanted to comment on a few things that I?ve seen
posted in the group:

#1) Height. Anyone who says height doesn?t matter probably doesn?t have
height that matters.
I?m 6?3? (6?4? in shoes) and I know it helps me a lot. Just being able
to smooth talk a girl while looking at her eyes from above is bonus. It
creates a sense of submission for them.

#2) Dick size. I think this is the same thing as height. People who say
dick size doesn?t matter probably don?t have a dick size that matters.
I?m packing around 7 ? to 8 inches. Girls ALWAYS tell me how much they
like it. It also seems that this is one of the first things to come up
in conversation when girls get together and start talking about their
sexual episodes. They always want to know how big the guy?s dick was.
 I don?t think it HURTS your appeal if you are on the short side, but
it sure as hell helps if you?re on the BIGGER side.


Anyway, on to a report:

A few weeks ago I met a girl on campus and we just started talking
fluff. Most guys would think she?s a solid 8 (blonde hair, blue eyes,
and nice body) but I?d give her a 7 cause I?m just not into the blonde
babe thing.
So we start talking about school and all that shit. She asks what I do
? and that?s always my golden ticket. I?m a visual arts and
communications major so it always seems normal when I start talking
about crazy shit.
She seemed interested, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Since I was working on a project at the time, I asked her to help me
out by describing they way she felt about certain words. I said ?close
your eyes and listen to the words I say. Tell me how you feel when you
hear them?. We went through a few words ? mostly positive and only one
or two negative. I didn?t want to seem like a smiley-happy-homo or
something.
At this point I could tell she was a bit intrigued because I was
different, but she wasn?t anywhere near the point of WANTING me.
So I started a conversation (so that we could SHARE IDEAS) about those
words.
One of the words was ?joy? ? so we talked about that. I described the
state of joy and how I felt about it. How it feels, how I could see it,
and how I could hear it. I asked her to close her eyes once again and
describe to me how she felt and see if anything I said matched her own
description.
Then I did ?unity?. I followed the same routine as ?joy?.  The idea
here was to lead her imagination but draw similarities between her
thoughts, feelings, emotions and my own. It started working at this
point so I would do stuff like put my hands over her ears (but cup them
like I was caressing her face) and ask her to tell me how she felt. I
gently put my fingers over her eyes (but made sure to lightly brush her
eyebrow), and did the same thing. I was trying to create an anchor ?
although it was in odd places on her body.

Finally, I wrapped up everything she said in a few words and told her
to imagine how those words would look while being visually represented
in my project (trying to lead her imagination). I did this while
touching her eyebrows to cover her eyes.
Basically I fed back her auditory, visual, and kinesthetic thoughts in
a VASTLY AMPLIFIED way. I represented her description of joy as nothing
short of utopia. The thing was, I did it while interjecting portions of
the conversation we had about OUR THOUGHTS IN COMMON as well.
So we had: her thoughts, my thoughts, and OUR COLLECTIVE thoughts (and
those collective thoughts are what I emotionally amplified for her).

At this point she DEFINITELY had doggy-dinner-bowl action going on. The
hell of it was, I couldn?t go anywhere else with her at the moment. I
REALLY had to be somewhere. But she gave me her number (I never asked)
and just looked at me. I knew she wanted to kiss. Well, she probably
wanted to fuck, but that wasn?t going to happen right then
unfortunately. So I smiled at her mischievously and kissed her lightly
on the lips while I caressed her face (and touched her ears).

I called her two days later and we got together at her place. We talked
for a while, but it was pretty obvious that there was no need for
fluffing or bullshitting. Actually, it was almost weird because she
seemed flushed and just kept staring at me. I?ve had girls in trances
before, but this was a little more than I?ve ever seen. Anyway, we
started making out, and I talked into her ear. Not too long after that
we really went at it. :)Heh heh?

     
I still say that every guy should have SOMETHING that lets him
effortlessly segue into these types of SS conversations or patterns.
You can?t just walk up to a stranger and go ?shut your eyes and tell me
about love?. It won?t work. But if you have a purpose or reason, then
the girls WILL WANT TO do it.

Also, there has to be a point of connection. Leading a girl?s
imagination is good, but unless she understands that YOU lead it, that
YOU control it, that YOU are the ticket to more of the same, it won?t
matter. She?ll love what she felt, but she?ll just think it was all on
her own. YOU have to be the key for her feeling that way again.


Lastly, I?ve never read any SS material, but I a lot of my success came
from reading Ross?s site and newsletters. So I just want to give credit
where credit is due: to Ross and SS. I don?t want to be one of these
guys that steals his work and claim it as my own. I?d rather say thanks
and mean it. So, thanks. :)

Beyond Ross, I have to say that Vince has been quite an inspiration. He
shows a lot of character and intelligence and actually creates
something with women rather than manipulating them from their
insecurities. I hope you stick around for a while, man!!


Later!
-IX

Setting up the Kiss Close

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com

A way to set up the kiss close

From: erosla77@aol.com (ErosLA77) Ross Jeffries
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Date: 26 Dec 2000 19:23:44 GMT
Subject: Re: What if...

>Subject: Re: What if...
>From: eclipse19@my-deja.com
>Date: Tue, Dec 26, 2000 12:04 AM
>Message-id: <929jdt$u6t@nnrp1.deja.com>
>
>In article <9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>  charnel1278@my-deja.com wrote:
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say
>that
>> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
>> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when
>you
>> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
>> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
>> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
>> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>>
>> Laters.
>
> the standard (canned) reply to a "no" answer is "YOU really know how
>to ruin a moment....your old boyfriends must have hated that about you"
>I think i got this off tony or maniac's site, forget which one. I
>havent ran into a direct "no" answer myself so i havent field tested
>this, but im sure others have. From what i read(or remember anyhow)
>this will leave them stunned and they will show less resistance against
>another kiss.
>
>

 Hmmm......well, I like this "you really know how to ruin a moment" response
WITHOUT asking for the kiss first. "Asking" for anything, outside of the
presence of fun(as in, on the spur of the moment saying, "Hey...wouldn't it be
fun to go to a strip club? Let's go!))  seems pretty pathetic to me.  

    A good one is to notice her giving you that look and then say(and I got
this from a student, it is NOT mine).  "If ? were to ask you on a scale of one
to ten, how good a kisser are you, what would you say?"

 Listen for her answer, then say, "If you were to kiss me right now, how do you
think I'd rate you?"

  You do this ONLY when you see "the look".......

  "let's find out" you say and kiss her.  

IF she backs away from that, then the "you really know how to ruin a moment"
comment works great.  Come to think of it, this could really work for a
cancellation as well. 

---

From: "General Snafu" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: Re: What if...
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 22:57:08 GMT

If she says no to a kiss, ask for a BJ.  If she says no to the BJ, you are
SOL for the night.

 wrote in message
news:9299s4$o03@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I've checked out a Maniac's, and some others websites and most say that
> when you ask "Do you wanna kiss me?", you're guaranteed a kiss, unless
> you get a flat out NO.  None, from what I saw, said what to do when you
> get that NO.  Do you continue on the conversation like nothing
> happened? Do you come back with a similar question later in the
> evening?  If so, won't she kinda feel that you're badgering her?
> Granted, this won't happen often, but what if?....
>
> Laters.
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Kipp’s Nightclub guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP

Buy Soma No Prescription

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

Buy soma no prescription, [TPUA does a late night street PU and converts to a lay.

Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com]

Hey Maniac,

Tokyopua

------------------------------------------------------

Doing proper ‘closes’

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:

http://www.pickupguide.com



Toecutter talks about 'closing'!


From toecutter@mail.com Thu Nov  2 10:44:01 2000
From: "toecutter" 
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Subject: More lessons from sales: Closing.
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:40:13 GMT


Yesterday I did a brief outline on what was in the sales literature on
handling objections. Today I am going to attempt to address closing (this is
a much more difficult task). It is not an easy thing to write about. There
are whole books out there on this stage of the sales process alone. Suffice
to say that it is by far the most important. You can be perfect at the other
5 steps, but if you can not close, and ask for a call to action then you can
not sell (or get a fuck).

In fact salesmen say that there are 2 types of people in sales: The salesman
(who is better than simply an ordertaker; at least he can so some things on
his own ... if he is good he can generate leads, meet and initiate
conversation, elicit values, support the sale, handle objections, and
attempt to close). The other type is The Closer (he is the man that can
really deliver. He can sell, charm and hold the customer to the deal).
Closing a sale is the most important skill a sales person (or PUA) needs.
You can be charismatic, come up with the best leads, have incredible
presentation skills, but if you can't close, you can't sell (or PU).

There are three steps to closing a sale and they are:

A. Recognising the Time to Close
B. Deciding on Your Closing Technique
C. Making the Closing Statement

In recognising the time to close you need to watch your customer. (Needless
to say, Value needs to have been created first but some customers may know
they need your product before you open your mouth. You can just walk up to
the customer and close ... I have seen guys just walk up take a girl by the
hand and lead her out of a bar without a word ... CLOSERS). You close too
early (value has not been created or objections have not been overcome) you
loose the sale. You close too late, the customer is out of their
enthusiastic state, you will fall flat on your face again. Watch her state
and see the opportunity. In fact the whole time you are with her you should
be looking for that window of opportunity to close. Closing is the only
reason you are even there.

Some relevant closing techniques from sales I will outline below, but there
needs to be a technique. In the PU situation, I would use them for a #close,
or a date close (i.e. getting her out of the bar, or the supermarket queue
into a coffee shop or your home to see whatever it is that you say you want
to show them). It is a call for action. I make the reservation that you
should not use a verbal close to get her answering the question "Shall we go
and fuck?". This defies chick logic. Just get her to your house.

The closing statement needs to be smooth and delivered with confidence. This
is not a time for Umms and Ahhs. Once you have decided on your technique,
you are ready to make the closing statement. It is time to ask for the order
(or number or to leave together). There are some considerations that you
should understand so that your efforts to close will be successful:

* Stay in your normal discussion mode and tone. Don't telegraph what you are
going to do by a change in posture or tone of voice.
* Remember that you are asking for the order but don't pressure for a sale.
Move slowly but deliberately to the next step in the process, if there is
one.
* Expect your close to fail if you have not provided the value needed by the
prospect. Don't discount the failure, learn from it and do better next time.
* Ask questions if the close fails to determine what went wrong and see if
you can salvage the situation (the more high pressure the close you use, the
more you are going to have to work to retrieve the situation).

Okay, now for some of the techniques. See my post "Field report: A killer
#close including overcoming BF objections"
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=1&mn=970
26921569650 for a field report using many of these techniques. I know the
close is far from perfect, but you can see my sales training shining through
in it. It includes the yes ladder, an invitational close (crossed with the
puppy dog, "try me, I am free"), fear factor close and pre-emptive objection
strike (I'll be discrete). I reckon that I got the fuck largely on the
strength of this close.

The main reason customers say "no" is a fear of making a decision. They say
"no" even if they want to buy from you. So, when a customer says "no," you
must re-sell by creating more value, or building up the required state and
close again. In order to do this, you must have more than one close to use.
Otherwise, they will leave and go fuck your competitor. Here are some:

The Power of Suggestion Close (called in NLP, time distortion) Help your
customers to see themselves using your product. Speak to them as though they
already owned it, and tie in a hot button benefit to its use: "When you use
these vitamins and herbs, after only a few weeks you'll notice that you have
more energy and that you feel healthier." or from in a pattern "Imagine us
at the coffee shop laughing together and having a good time, and later you
being at home feeling that you had a really good time and enjoyed yourself
spending time with me over coffee. Now when you think about what I am
saying, and all those feelings that I am talking about, doesn't it just make
sense that we go and have coffee together now?"

The Direct Close. (high risk, she could say "no", then she owns that no, and
you have to prove her wrong.) The obvious and most frequently used close is
the direct approach of asking for the order. Once you are sure in your mind
that you have done everything possible to overcome objections, and if you
feel that you can fulfill the prospects need, go for it. "If we want to
continue this conversation another time, I will need your phone number, here
is my pen."

The Invitational Close. If you want it, you have to ask for it. Don't just
wait for the customer to say, "I'll take it." They don't. Create the value,
then invite them to do it. Say, "Why don't you give it a try? Go ahead and
do it."

The Option Close. The more options you give someone, the better your chances
to close."Our truck is in this area twice a week, do want delivery on
Wednesday or Friday?" "Do you want this charged to your Visa or MasterCard?"
"I'll be in your area on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings, which would be a
better night for us to catch up and have coffee?" These choices require a
commitment and "no" is not offered as an option.

The yes ladder close (TokyoPUA calls this one the yes-set). The yes ladder
close builds a chain of "yes's" to questions the salesperson asks to help
lead the customer into saying yes to the sale. To put the customer in the
habit of saying yes, ask questions you're sure will get affirmative answers.
See that field report for an example.

The Puppy Dog Close (also called the Free Trial close) This close gets its
name from the pet store closing technique of letting customers hold the
animal they want to make it harder to resist, and even let them take it home
for a week. This close lets your buyers see for themselves your product's
quality. Make sure your customers hold, taste, feel, wear, try out your
product, take it home for a week even and bond with it. Let the prospect use
your product or service for a specified period of time with the
understanding that you will pick up a signed order after the trial period.

The Fear-Factor Close. This is very powerful because you are playing on
people's uncertainties, insecurities and fears. People want products and
services which minimize their risks whether it is personal or property
related. "This water purifier will protect you and your family from some of
the deadliest forms of bacteria in the water." Hard to implement, but I did
it with that  close in the field report.

The Readiness Close
This close checks the client's "buying temperature." With it you can also
find out if you are on the right path with your presentation or if you need
to change course. The great thing about this close is that it doesn't end
your presentation but instead tells you what direction to go.
A. "Does this make sense to you?"
B. "How do you feel about this so far?"
C. "Is this what you wanted?"
D. "Is this an improvement for you?"
Not sure how to implement this last one, and have been thinking about it
because it is so LOW risk. Any ideas?

Comments / suggestions / applications / more closes are welcome.

Toecutter.

P.S. There are guys out there in this group who obviously can not close (Ray
is the perfect example ... his Foxhunting crap I have read, but his handling
of objections only delays his need to close by dragging the thing out. He is
scared as shit of this step in the process, the call for action, and works
out complex strategies so that he feels like he is doing something, but it
never leads to the close. Realise that you NEED to close, and it is the only
reason you are even there).

Taro-san’s Basic Seduction Guide!

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Website:
http://www.pickupguide.com




Taro-san, a master PUA outlines his seduction guide!




From maniac_high@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 00:03:46 2000
From: "maniac_high" 
Subject: Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast
Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast

Taro-san's Seduction Guide!
000325

I just got a snail mail letter from Taro-san, an
awesome Japanese PUA (who speaks good English) who is 
staying in Paris this year, containing a summary of 
his chick seduction guide. He is an artist or something,
and lives to PU chicks. I will post his note below as 
it is, and we can discuss it/take it apart/ask him 
questions.

I will also put it on my page during the next update.

Maniac
http://www.pickupguide.com


---------Taro san's Seduction Strategy-----------

From the archives at Maniac High's Seduction Guide
http://www.pickupguide.com


ROUGH IDEA OF THE SEDUCTION
Step 1)Telephone call (3..5 times), it means NO DATES

Step 2)Invite her over, (it means NO DATES)

Step 3)Achievement (ie. the lay), it means satisfaction.

The point of "1)" is to enable her to talk about 
anything with you. 

The point of "2)" is to make her want to see you. 

For "3)", you want to tell her about/describe the 
"ceremony" [this is the "Our World" routine on 
Maniac's page (www.pickupguide.com)]. 

The "ceremony" is she must hug/kiss you (from her
all the time, not from you..make her believe SHE's
got initiative).. actually, you control her
absolutely, but don't make her notice..make her
believe she's got a choice/decides herself.

When she comes, intercourse is a SPECIAL experience, 
and makes each other peaceful, comfortable, more 
intimate, closer..etc...whatever.

---Okay, now the details for the above steps:
Step 1)Therefore the conversation is really important.
Basically, it should be very personal, but it makes
her interested. The subject should be wide, like from 
orgasm to her favorite chocolate.

The attitude of your talking should be extremely wide
(super ridiculously funny to super philosophically 
serious)

Step 2)
a)The very first moment (VERY IMPORTANT) of the
meeting, you CAN'T MISS the "ceremony kiss" (as you
described in the phone call). Start with "kiss me"
on my cheek (like french 'bec' way), and then "on
my mouth, once more.. "slowly", "tenderly")<-- very 
important, it makes her relieve (usually) comfortable.

Its okay whatever you say, eventually, as long as you
acheive the "ceremony".

b)Sitting next to her (hopefully on the sofa, or bed..
easy to move onto the "action" after kiss there.

c)After/during Kisses & hugs... take the clothes off..
the concept is to be closer, "feel each other" <--this is
better, ..blah blah.  

[The concept is "human's body is much more comfortable
than clothes].

Step 3)
Fuck her

--
The essential thing in this course is:
1)Telephone
2)Invite her+ "Ceremony"

[Another nice thing about it: Total cost to lay chick: Kipp’s Nightclub guide!.00]

--

I have several questions to Taro-san about the details above,
and will post more here as it comes in.

Constructive comments/opinions welcome!

Maniac High
http://www.pickupguide.com
--

Random highlights and tidbits from the diary Part 2

Maniac High — Fri, 14 May 2010 08:00:00 +0000

[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!

This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]

PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:

Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.

5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.

What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue

Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE

Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".

Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.

KIPP