Copyright 2002, www.pickupguide.com
All rights Reserved; Kipp, Maniac High, The MH Group
[Maniac High present's: KIPPS CLUB GUIDE!
This is Kipp's awesome guide for working the pub/nightclub scene!]
PART 1 CLUB GUIDE:
Here it is....for comments/suggestions/points of clarification. Distills fucking
17 years of wisdom into a Guide that most cats can use. Perhaps a bit weak
on the higher-level organization (e.g., FMACTGH-style map) but in general it
covers most points.
***************************************************************
Here`s the Klub Guide (TM):
1. BACKGROUND:
Q-Who is Kipp?
A-I`m a mid-30s white American living in Tokyo.
Q-Why should we believe what you say? What is your success like?
A-In absolute numbers, by my count I have pulled about 16 women for same
nite fucks out of clubs (ONS) over the last 4 years. These women gave
themselves completely to me physically, including penetration. Add another 5
or 6 for hotels/apartment takeaways that typically went to 3rd base, but did not
involve full sex. On top of that, I have solicited over 100 phone #`s and had
follow-on relations with at least a dozen women whom I met initially in
clubs. These women have been white, Asian, Hispanic and black, with an age
distribution between 17 and mid-30s. Most have been J chicks in Tokyo.
I am not a clubber per se. I specifically go to clubs to meet women, not to
listen to the music (although I do enjoy the atmosphere of most clubs), and
importantly not to shoot the shit with male friends. I probably go out from 15
to 30 times per year. I usually work dance clubs (discos), with hip-hop &
rock bars high on the list. Increasingly I am finding my style works in
English/Irish pub settings as well, although there it is much more of a
mainstream PU as may be espoused by the likes of Maniac or Mystery... I
have often worked kink/fringe clubs as well (e.g., End-Up in San Francisco or
ManRay in Boston). I tend to avoid `hard core` clubs on rap or techno these
days --> a more mixed set is to my liking.
Q: Tokyo is Easy! Do your techniques work elsewhere?
A:I have pulled women in Boston (Landsdowne Street), Chicago (Rush
Street/North End), and San Francisco (Mission/Folsom district). I find Tokyo
to be the easiest market, but the techniques are generally applicable
anywhere. Tokyo is getting more difficult as more foreigners enter, and also
potentially because I am aging (more on that later).
Q: Why do you work clubs? Is it harder or easier than other channels? What
are the benefits and disadvantages?
A: I find clubs to be my easiest channel. Women are there for the plucking,
like fruit on a supermarket shelf. Yes, there may be more competition but it is
visible and defensible (cf the internet chicks who chat with 15 guys at once,
all invisible to you). I have developed strategies to exploit the vulnerabilities
of attractive women in the club scene, such as by choosing the best times to go
& what to look for before an approach.
Club work *IS* harder on the body (drinking, late nites) and less cerebral than
other approaches. You will be able to do much less patterning. It is often less
psychologically intimate as well, depending more on kino/suggestive body
language or a well-timed suggestive phrase (NLP?) than on deep patterning.
The art relies more on body reading, than word reading (which, in fact, is how
chicks think & operate on a right-brain basis so in this sense is a more direct
avenue to teh chick`s pussy).
On the plus side, the opportunities are gathered in mass as it is easier to
exploit the #`s game. The time constraints also FORCE you to speed up your
game, tighten to the essentials necessary for the lay. Club work also allows
you to move on from a temporary setback - if a club chick does not succumb
to advances/seduction, the next one is right down the bar. Failure is more
visible, which is why I believe some men are afraid of clubs. But the failure
usually carries a MUCH LOWER sunk cost than other types of `dating`
situations and nobody but you really gives a fuck that the chick blew you out
(unless they are laughing & making a big scene, but then it is YOUR fault for
not managing the exit parachute lever properly -- more later). Contrast the
club chick who dumps you by saying `I`m going to the bathroom` never to
return with a blind date or what have you where you are sometimes stuck
empty-handed after an unsuccessful 2-hour dinner/movie attempt at a fuck
close --> when you have to work the next day, and it is 10:30 at nite, and you
are stuck. You are left with your old friend righty with Ed Powers Does Dirty
Deb #178. Enough!
Q: Does club work have a shelf-life?
A: I do find it harder as I age -- not so much on outward appearances (I can
stay abreast of fashions), but on cultural differences talking to woman half my
age. Also, the ability to recover from an all-nite session declines with age. In
general, though, I still find I have the `touch` & I have lost at least 2 or 3
battles over the past 2 years to Men who were obviously in their mid-40s or
later (gray hair, paunches, and the like...). At the end of the day, with effort
age can be overcome and age is a mental state awareness as much as a
biological phenomenom, particularly when we are collapsing the time
dimension to say, one night. Age shows over time...
Q: I need a good wingman, right? All my friends are AFC...
A: Basically NO. I almost always work alone, which quite honestly is a
result of historical accident. It is very rare when I lose a woman or pair
because I don`t have a friend with me. Friends can come in useful for social
proof & to isolate your target, but they can also create jealousy/group dynamic
situations that are harder to control. I`ve seen way too many guys stand by
themselves, spending way too much time talking guy bull rather than hunting
pussy. Friends can be a distraction, believe it or not. I prefer to MINIMIZE
risk variables. I concentrate BETTER and FOLLOW MY INSTINCTS better
if I am alone. If I need a friend, I will try to recruit one mid-way through a
PU night. ADVANCED TOPIC: the most useful role of friends is for
protection from other guys, if a PU goes badly -- this has happened twice in
17 years, so it is rare but it does happen....
Q: Don`t you lack social proof if you work alone?
A: Yes, but you lie. I always tell chicks my friend(s) left earlier...this is
credible because the hour is usually very late. I am also moving around the
club, talking to people, so I don`t look like a social misfit. I will get a
HIGHER level of social proof by being with a hot chick in a club, rather than
being next to my buddy in jeans & dockers. I often sometimes bring pics,
etc. that show me with men/women so that the social proof is there
vicariously....I also recruit wings in-progress, and encourage other men to
move in on the friends of my targets...
Q: Cupid/fundamentals are important (looks, money, cars?)
A: Perhaps more than other channels, but they are not necessary. Leadership
& techniques skills are FAR more important. I closed my first hot chick in
Boston with a Honda Civic that had vinyl seats. Some fashion sense broadly
consistent with the club(s) you will frequent is helpful, but other than that
technique/alpha/kino rule the day. What most guys don`t realize is hot chicks
usually like the same alpha guys, many of whom don`t give a shit back about
them. These HBs get vulnerable (particularly around 3:30 AM in Tokyo).
You have an OPPORTUNITY..... I have also seen attractive women walk into
cabs with ugly mother fuckers, whereby I debrief the friend who stays
behind. The friend says `Yeah, she really didn`t like that guy, but she told me
she wanted to get laid tonite....he didn`t seem so bad after all SMILE`.
Believe me, alot of beautiful girls go with ugly guys...saw one last Friday
again where the initial feedback from a pair of girls who ended up GOING
HOME TO FUCK an unattractive yet persistent black male was that they
`despised black guys`....
These are some basics before I get started with the framework, which
basically tailors the FAMC model, spending more time on some steps, less on
others. I will continue to address topical ?`s where I feel appropriate....
2. MISSION STATEMENT:
I am going to the clubs to get laid tonite, and/or KC at least one woman. I
WILL at a minimum feel up the ass of at least one attractive woman. I am a
MAN and I make no apologies for my sexual desires. I will fulfill some of
these desires tonite. I WILL at a minimum get at least one or two telephone
#`s for follow-on work. I will make mistakes, but these will be learning
opportunites. I will not despise PUAs better than myself, but instead befriend
them and learn from them. I will RELAX and ENJOY myself no matter
what.
3. PREPARATION:
Dress--> slightly aggressive, with whatever happens to be in fashion (you may
need to ask women friends, go to department stores & ask cute clerks, watch
MTV, and importantly make a test run or two to some of the clubs in your
area to determine fashions). Choose colors that women say look good on
you. Black rarely fails. Baggy or loose clothes --> depends on the fashion. If
you want to go to a black/hip-hop venue, loose is HIGHLY recommended.
Otherwise whatever YOU FEEL MOST COMFORTABLE in and what you
have gotten positive FEMALE FEEDBACK on should do the trick. Some
clubs do not allow sneakers, so be advised. Avoid hum-drum clothing like
Dockers or Dexters, unless you are going to a white frat-boy type
club....Leather jackets are HIGHLY recommended--> women like leather,
generally.
Accessorize--> choose an interesting ring, necklace, arm band, tattoo, or what
have you. Or shoes/belt if jewelry is not your style. Cologne is
recommended. Again, ask female store clerks/friends or internet chat mates.
Generally, Polo/RL & CK are good standbyes. I`ve found Bvglari Pour
Homme to work for me, as well as Fahrenheit. Women love smells --> I often
get complemented on this. Cologne also defuses some of the alcohol/smoke
stench....Make sure you have some breathmints/mouthwash as well as you
don`t want to smell like an alkie or coffin-puffer even if you are ;-). Hair gel
can be a PLUS.
ADVANCED TOPICS (AT): I do not recommend going for the Jude Law AI
pimp look (wide collars, massive jewelry, leather)for beginners. Advanced
players can pull of an aggressive, pimp look. Unless you have major attitude
to go with this, I don`t advise it. I will also sometimes wear no underwear or
a leather brief if I want to make myself more conscious of my male power
(this is a bit OT, but it works for me and can make me more sexually charged
than I otherwise would be).
I will try to lay down a bit before going out in order to rest, and maybe have
one drink to relax. Listen to some power tunes to pump yourself up. Think
about your successes! Induce a POSITIVE frame of mind. You ARE the
MASTER of your destiny. You WILL get laid tonite --> no you will Lay the
Bitch tonite, not `get laid`. Getting laid is for passive wimps.
Other preps/things to bring with. Cell phone is a must for # closing (more on
method later). I try to bring interesting props, such as a disposable camera,
travel pics I`ve taken, origami paper, and the like. Sometimes I will use these
in the `Attract` stage of FMAC process that works for clubs as well. Don`t
forget the breathmints.
Oh yeah, one last point. Your goal will likely be to FUCK a CHICK THAT
NITE. Make sure your place is respectable. Spray an air freshener. Don`t
leave condoms (particularly used one) or pornos lying around (a mistake I
made 2 weeks ago). Have the fridge stocked with water & basic food. You
may need breakfast! If you want to get rid of the chick early (shouldn`t be a
problem w/ a club pick-up), perhaps set the alarm & tell the chick you have a
plan --> she has to go (soon after the fuck, early in the morning). Espeically
helpful for married men.
4. STRATEGY:
Minimize risks, maximize opportunites. Your enemies will be excess
variables (friends, groups, time gaps, to a lesser extent other men); your allies
will be opportunities in numbers & mobility, as well as your preparedness &
PU skills.
5. TACTICS
5a. Where to go, & when? Choose an area of high club density --> you will
likely find yourself wanting to club hop. Choose a club that has some side
area where you can break away with a chick and talk. Loud music is OK, if
there is some side area/table area or fast-food restaurants nearby outside. Try
to find a club where they don`t hustle you to buy a drink every 15 minutes...
When to go? I recommend going near closing time, minus one hour. Take the
close time and subtract 1 hour. You want to be IN the club for the prior 1.5-2
hours. This is when the women will be horniest, many men will have left, and
the hot chicks will be on the rebound from getting dumped by the hot guys
who have chosen a different chick & therefore desperate to re-affirm their
sexiness (which you will be more than happy to do). It is the time when
decisions are made on whom to leave with and spend the nite. Much before
this time window, and there is too much `playing` (6 times out of 10 the guy
the chick is flirting with at 12:30 will NOT be the one she walks into a cab
with at 4 AM -- trust me, many men make this mistake of assuming too early
that she is `spoken for`). Much later than the 1 hour before close time
window, and you will feel too rushed and risk that the best ones WILL in fact
likely have been scooped up.
Examples--> Boston club closes at 2AM, be there between 11:30 and 1,1:30.
Tokyo club closes at 5AM, be there between 1:30 and 3;30-4.
As for days of the week, Saturdays are best in terms of volume & people
being relaxed, unburdened by work. Followed next in attractiveness by a
theme nite where there will be fewer men, and which ladies drinks are usually
discounted. Fridays are average. Sundays-Tuesdays are tough.....depending
on theme nites.
Should you drive or taxi or train? Up to you. I prefer to taxi, but it could be
easier to get a chick into a car provided you are sober enough to drive (e.g.,
wanna lift home or wanna see my place - but be careful that she is not using
you for a ride, and in fact will fuck you: if you think she wants just a ride, test
her shit by trying to take a taxi to your place). Generally, if you`ve laid the
groundwork to the point where she is leaving with you --> shouldn`t matter
how you get there. Car is preferable to train, because it minimizes the
distance between you & distractions from other people.
5b. FIND
Walk into a club. Always smile & be positive. Stand tall, don`t slouch.
Make sure your hair is combed (or fashionably tousled, if that be the case).
Go up to the bar & get a drink.
TIP: Don`t obsess about the `To Drink or Not to Drink` issue, that is a
distraction. Choose alcoholic or non -- YOUR preference, not one dictated by
social pressure. If you are concern ed about feeling wimpy about not
drinking, then order a Coke or OJ and pretend it is a mixed drink, although
that is quite lame. Better to drink non-alcoholic proudly if that`s your
preference. If a chick wants to give you shit about it, then you make a joke
out of it and tell her you are a world-class trained Olympian speed
skater/assassin or what have you and work a gig out of it to get her laughing &
realize the error of her ways -- she will remember your witty response FAR
more than the fact that you aren`t drinking Corona, and will likely be
impressed ;-) If you choose to drink alcoholic, fine. I suggest in moderation,
as being drunk can hinder the closing process (more later...)
Whom do I approach? Do NOT approach the first cute chick you see,
although as you get more skilled & if you have time constraints then using a
strict 3-second rule is not necessarily a `bad thing. However, for newbies I
advise taking time (about 5-15 minutes) to survey the atmosphere of the
club, who is with whom, wehre the dance floor is, where would be good
places to feel up a chick etc. Look like James Dean -- sexy, disinterested,
mysterious while sipping on your drink or a cigarette. Perhaps chat up the
bartender --> these people can give you social proof & be your allies....the
more friends you make, the better (although never forget your MISSION to
get laid with an HB, not chat up every friendly guy or girl in the joint...)
Scan the room & then walk the joint subtly so you can get all the key vantage
points all the while making EC --> make a mental note of who gave you EC
back, and save at least one of these for a later approach should your initial
attempts fail. Make at least 2 targets, and think of how you will approach
them...
What kind of women make good targets? Whom should I approach?
**PART2 to continue*****
Kipp's Klub Guide - Part 2. The APPROACH, the SARGE, the CLOSE
Jan, bartender at Tokyo hip-hop club Viettie: "The African guys have the most
success, because they don't care about failing and never quit hitting on the chicks".
Golden Rule: "Follow the body, not the mouth. Listen to how she touches/responds
to your touching, not to her lame-ass foils such as … I have a BF….no….I can't do
this here….If her body is responding, the WOMAN is responding, and your chances
of fucking her are VERY HIGH".
*****************************************************************************
WHOM DO I SARGE?
**Usually women go to clubs with friends; the difficulty of the approach increases
with the # of women; i.e., singles are easiest (but infrequent), pairs are optimal,
threes are doable, more than 3 and the variables are harder to control. Sometimes
guys can be in the mix; you should spend your 15 minute warm-up time getting
acclimated to the bar/club to make quick judgments about the relationship of guys to
the women you've identified as potential targets.
ADVANCED TOPIC: Guys are not bad, and can often be your allies as most guys
want to see other guys succeed in a meat market arena when the target female in ? is
not identical. Most newbies overestimate the likely "steady" romantic interest of
guy/girl mixed groups – generally it is OK to approach, and if there is a
romantic/territorial issue then you usually find out pretty quickly in which case you
play it cool, back off, and re-orient quickly toward non-harmful conversation and
potentially defuse with flattering comments about what a "lucky guy" he is, or what a
"terrific looking couple" you are. You needn"t waste time here being buddy-buddy
and you will want to excuse yourself (toilet, talk to other friends, dance, drink,
whatever) pretty quickly if a formal leave even seems necessary.
I will usually look for an attractive girl, but not a knockout, who is standing/sitting to
the side of the dance floor (probably at a bar counter or table/peripheral area).
Assuming it is a single or pair, I will wait for a pause in the conversation before
making my cut-in – nobody likes to be butted aside in a conversation, and if you
approach when the 2 friends are talking in earnest you will likely be an unwelcomed
interruption – fatal mistake, tough to recover from. I will further look for girls who
look either really bored or having a good time – chicks that seem to ooze attitude are
probably better saved for later, or else approached with a neg ala Mystery"s
techniques. Finally, I will typically approach women who are drinking alcohol, but
not visibly drunk. I find the Evian set and the boozer sets to be difficult to deal with
– I like leverage my buddy Jack Daniels as my ally in the PU, even if this may be
cheating (note—the key is to get the chick dammit; once you've fucked her so she is
screaming out of her panties, then you can proceed to have all the sober non-alcohol
fun you want in subsequent outings…)
ADVANCED TOPIC: WTF Kipp, you are telling me to avoid the 9s & 10?. What
kind of plan is that? I am simply saying start out on the 8s, or a mixed pair. Wait
until the 9s-10s get dissed by their alpha lust targets – they will have less attitude
later. . Sometimes all the guys avoid the 10s as "beyond my league", and you can
swoop in, but that is an exception rather than the rule. As you get better, you can
directly approach better looking girls as a rule. But I assume if you know what you
are doing in clubs/bars, then you are likely not reading this manual.
HOW TO APPROACH?
This stage is WAAAAAAAAAYYYY overrated (even Maniac is increasingly saying
these days that J chicks have been taken by the lamest openers, such as 'what's your
e-mail address' or 'you look really hot, what's your name")
The key is to be relaxed, smiling, confident, not a panting dog, and simply approach
with good posture, a smile, good intonation, and strength of body manners. The girl
is a human animal – she is processing not only WHAT you say, but at some
conscious/unconscious level your looks, manner, voice tone, scent, etc. VERBAL
COMMUNICATION is one part of the equation, and overrated in my view.
Particularly in what can be a noisy bar situation…..I may even approach the friend of
my primary target, just to disarm my entry into the cloister and frankly to take a bit of
the pressure off of myself (although this can backfire, if the friend takes your
approach as she is your primary target, in which case chick etiquette of not stepping
on friends' toes may kick in)
General rule-of-thumb styles for different bitches:
- friendly looking, happy cheerful ? neutral to compliment, weak praise, funny off-beat
- average looking ? neutral, slightly funny/offbeat
- queen bee / high bitch shield looking ? neg, neutral, to funny/offbeat. Avoid
compliments.
Generally, HUMOR is GOOD, SHORT is SWEET. Make personal (clothing
accessories, general mannerisms, drink choice), social comments rather than talk
about politics, sports, & heavy stuff – you are in a music club, not a DEBATE club.
LISTEN to a CHICK – if she talks, grab onto her threads & let her TALK. Chicks
like to be listened to, and led powerfully. Nobody – especially chicks – likes to be
droned to sleep by too-long monologue, even if it is slightly witty in your mind (your
mind doesn"t count, her intellectually active mind counts 30%, her
body/subconscious mind counts 70%!!!!). You are in a bar, not a DEBATE CLUB.
**Examples of approaches:
1/ "Hi, this is a great song, don"t you think? Sounds like Janet Jackson, do you know
who it is?"
2/ "Wow, this song brings back memories/Wow, this song really makes me FEEL
like getting down & dancing – brief dance demo – don't you think so?"
3/ "Hi there, how are you? I couldn't help but notice your nails. Where did you find
that unique color—looks really cool in this lighting. They aren"t radioactive, though
(laugh)…."
4/ "Hi, I thought you were a leapord or zebra (if wearing animal print clothing), so
my buddy wanted me to come over & check it out to see if it was safe - big smile,
playful poke, laugh…."
5/ "What"s that drink, looks tasty (assuming odd colored drink)-> do you always
drink that?"
6/ "You remind me of xx (famous person) or yy (some chick you know). I bet you
get that all the time…."
7/ Use a prop if you must. Have a disposable camera, either ask to take their pic or
have them take you/your buddies…..whatever, anything to break the ice.
8/ Travel topics are good. Maybe break the ice by blurting out "It feels soooo good
to be back in town after 2 weeks in Hawaii, wherever". Chicks like to travel, & you
can immediately start talking about places you've been/want to go – create an "our
world" travel state, and substantiate this w/ travel pics assuming you may have put
some in your billfold….
9/Lastly, compliment on non-threatening accessory – shoes, earring, lipstick,
necklace, etc. While you probably spent 5 minutes deciding what neckchain you
were gonna wear, the chick probably spent 3 hours (lol!), asked 6 friends how it
looked – so suave her insecurities…..
CHICK RESPONSES:
1/ Warm Receptive (answers your ?, smiles, maybe introduces herself/friends)
2/ Neutral (smiles to neutral face, acknowledges your ? & maybe answers)
3/ Cool bitch (ignores you)
4/ Ice cold (walks away or tells you to piss off)
In my experience, you probably get a distribution of something like 10%-30%
WARM, 30%-40% NEUTRAL, and the remainder cool/ice. Unfortunately, I am not
going to give you any magic formula to win over the cool/ice crowd immediately ? I
would suggest a Mystery/RJ neg theory approach which frankly I am not that skilled
in.. And yes, they are likely the ones w/ the biggest tits and shortest mini skirts.
You are best off after a cool/ice reception to simply say "see you", move on, and
maybe approach later once their alpha males have gone off to fuck her friend in the
toilet/car and you have likely demonstrated social proof by being w/ other chicks, on
the dance floor, etc. You will likely be feeling wounded, and if you try to pursue
much further immediately will risk coming off as whiny/needy/loser. Bitches smell
dripping blood and are trained to go in for the kill – you don't need that now. You
know that she is a bitch, and if you have the chance AND choose to approach her
again later on, you will know that you have to display ATTITUDE &
DESIREABILITY back to her. Don"t lose state here – rejection happens to all guys,
even the best. Maybe she is on the rag, maybe she is pathetically in love w/ one guy
or type of guy (she only rides Benz, never Beemers or Bentleys), there could be a
million reasons that are not necessarily PERSONALLY directed against you. And
yes, maybe you are not "cute" or "young" or "buffed" enough. Shit happens. Forget
about it. Move on.
ADVANCED TOPIC: WTF Kipp, you are telling me I am going to fail maybe 50%
of the time in an approach? That is not a PUA. Well, that's life guys. Even Mystery
in his RJ challenges posits that clubs can be the most difficult channels to work.
Besides, what are your options? Staying at home with Ed Powers Dirty Debs #178 –
you meet exactly 0 women. Approach nobody but retain your precious ego? You
meet exactly 0 women, or maybe 1-2 UG's who feel sorry for you & approach you.
You have to get out on the battlefield, take some shrapnel, but win the WAR even if
you lose a few battles along the way & get some bumps/bruises.
Remember, you have PLANNED ahead. You are not captive to 1, 2, or 3 chicks'
unreceptive responses to your advances. NO! A key plank of your master plan is
that you are SHAMELESSLY WORKING numbers and EXPLOITING MYRIAD
OPPORTUNITIES. There are other tuna in the sea. There are other seas (clubs) to
which you can sail easily. Don"t sweat a rejection – she has LOST her opportunity to
feel GREAT with you, that is her LOSS. Move on. Demonstrate your VALUE to the
next chick.
WHAT TO SAY AFTER THE OPENER, where the chick has not ejected or dismissed you?
**This is, second to kino & making powerful sexually directed moves towards the
close, is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the PU. More important than the opener,
which as you read above can be corny, lame, or whatever. More important than the
target selection phase. It is at this stage that you DEMONSTRATE your VALUE,
and decide whether YOU want to CONTINUE the SARGE or move on to the next
butterfly. It can last anywhere from 5-10 minutes to hour(s).
It is also the most conventional stage where the RJ, Maniac, Mystery seduction
materials come in useful. So take heart, seduction skills learned/used elsewhere can
and even should be CRUCIAL SUCCESS ACCELERATORS in the club environs as
well.
After an opener, quickly exchange intros "By the way, my name is Kipp - rhymes
with HIP (laugh). What's yours – oh, don't tell me, I wanna guess – OK, give me a
hint". Make quick games/routines that will facilitate chicks remembering you & that
will DIFFERENTIATE U from the other Harry, Dicks, and Hiros out there. Here
is where you continue to demonstrate communication skills (you can talk), and also
good body language. I strongly advise raising your drink to hers/theirs, and doing a
brief toast as you SMILE. (By the way, a toast is actually a good/quick/harmless
exit if a PU is not that successfull – simply act like you just wanted to toast to some
new "friends" in the bar and move on quickly."
The post-opener stage is also where you are screening for basic compatability: e.g, is
the chick 10 years older than you which you don"t like, is she visiting just for the
weekend from Montana, what kind of music does she like, does she have any unique
hobbies etc. You also have to deal/neutralize friends at this stage. INCLUDE
friends in the conversation initially, maybe ask how they met/if they are good friends,
etc. At some point, sooner rather than later, you will want to isolate your target so I
would suggest subtly positioning yourself IN BETWEEN the friends so that you have
SOLO talking opportunities/KINO opportunities with your target. You can
probably venture light shoulder/body touching here and see if it is well received
(usually no problem 75% of the time; if they recoil, back off, apologize laughingly
saying something like "WOW! Didn"t realize my drink was that strong? what did
they put in there (laugh)". Etc. But it is generally a BAD sign if social kino is
rejected and the chick is probably frigid.
Post-opener stage is where you can run routines, props, etc. For example, 4?s or
simply ask what kind of animal they think they/friends/you resemble, and make jokes
about that. Better to have some conversation that is slightly funny, witty, non-
threatening. You can also pull out your pics you brought, a sketchpad, a camera, ,
talk about a success you had traveling/at work, etc. which DEMONSTRATES your
ACHIEVEMENTS and a MAN who is worth being with. Again, sort of the standard
seduction tool kit which I am not going to go over in detail in this guide ;-(
ADVANCED TOPIC: sometimes it is a great strategy to approach a pair WITHOUT
a well-defined target in mind. See how the flow develops, which one seems to
demonstrate more interest. As you are closer, you will be able to guage them better
physically. But probably the most important thing to bear in mind ALL ELSE
EQUAL is to choose the dominant/leader of the group as your target. That way, as
you go to eject, your chances of being cockblocked by a jealous/alpha female friend
of your target will be much lower. I have learned from experience by losing the
submissive of pairs, when the alpha dragged my friend away to another venue (with
her guy, as is often the case!!!)
Post-opener is also where awkward ?s can come up:
1/ Are you hitting on me? ANSWER: well, if you want me to be honest – and my
Mom taught me honesty is the best policy - YES. I find you really unique, attractive,
etc. " Note, you have set the expectations, shown you have breeding, and made her
feel good. Now, if a chick will freak on this then that is her problem, and you
probably are best off ejecting.
2/ You do this to all the chicks, don't you? ANSWER: here, it is better to lie. Say
something like "That's a good ?, I can understand that….but actually, no. I have just
finished this really big project at work I"ve been working on for my promotion to
senior associate, etc. and I haven't had time to hang out lately. But I finished, I'm
happy, and I met you so I feel great!'
3/ You have a GF, don't you?. ANSWER: "Well, women generally do find me
attractive, and I do have a lot of female friends – what are you thinking, just friends,
really! -- but there's nobody special in my life now….".
4/ You know, I have a BF….ANSWER: acknowledge, but subsequently ignore. If
she ejects or continually whines about this, then so be it. Refer to RJs boyfriend
breaking rules. Maybe make some comment like, "he"s a lucky guy (who"s probably
ignoring her, and she feels good hearing that from you) and I'm glad we can talk
tonite, if you were my GF I would be really thrilled to talk to you because you have
so many really valuable things to say YADA YADA YADA'. Make the woman
aware she is MISSING something that you are MORE THAN HAPPY to provide –
ego-fuck. Generally, speaking from experience in times where I have fucked married
women after they protested they had husbands, or where chicks w/ BFs not present
have eventually given me their phone #"s w/ a bullshit lie caveat to save face like
"we can all go out together sometime", BFs don't matter. Generally, the # close is
the test w/ these attached chicks. Try to get the #/e-mail by all means, even if they
(verbally) resist on grounds of being attached. The 64-million$ sign on whether they
are interested in you is whether they give you the contact info. If you get it, they are
receptive to you and INTERESTED. Period. 8 times out of 10 when you follow up,
they will conveniently forget to mention their BF/Hubby again or mention him only
as a logistical nuisance to you 2 getting something together ;-)
ALPHA MALES – WHAT TO DO WHEN OTHER GUYS MOVE IN ON MY
TURF
**Best strategy is to pretend you are a blocking guard or a hockey player. Always
physically guard your target where possible. Get her in a corner, you in between the
social crowd. Hold her hand. Look firm at other guys who approach -- not a dick
asking for a fight, but confident & not willing to back down. If a guy insists on
approaching, or worse if your chick gets all googly-gaga over an alpha male she sees
coming close to the two of you, then do your best to ignore him AND her reactions.
By acknowledging his presence & potential influence, you have lost PART 1 of the
battle. If you have to acknowledge, do so briefly. Or else chat him up in great depth,
so that he gets lost in his PU pursuits. If he must join a conversation, do not let him
lead. You try to reassert & direct the conversation flow. But generally ignore is the
best strategy.
This is another reason why you always must try to have good kino w/ your chick –
you have the chick's body (holding her hand, hip) even if her mind is straying. When
you risk losing is when the guy gets BOTH the chick's mind & body in tow….also,
at some point if the guy is drunk, huge, and belligerent – you have to consider your
personal safety (this is actually much rarer than commonly supposed, but it does
happen). If there are direct physical threats, then back off and concede defeat. Your
body is more important than any chick, and if you have to "fight" for you chick
(physically, that is) then she is worth shit. Also, going back to Wings – either your
buddies or guys you've befriended that nite—Wings come in to play a
cockblock/defense role obviously. But I think that goes without saying.
ADVANCED TOPIC: if you are not in your native country and speak the local
language as well, which language should you use? Generally, I advise using YOUR
OWN NATIVE language or ENGLISH where possible. If your foreign language
(e.g., Spanish or Japanese) skills are pretty good, then go with it. But even in Japan,
English rarely fails and a lot of the girls EXPECT/WANT to HEAR English from
you, not less-than-perfect Japanese. Now, of course, throughout a developing
conversation it only helps you to throw in some key phrases in the native language to
impress the chicks/show them your versatility, but DON"t try to be a SMARTY
PANTS know-it-all unless you really a confident in that role.
WHAT TO DO NEXT, AFTER THE OPENER & DIRECTED TALK?
**Kino, kino, kino. Connect to the body, not only the mind. You need to isolate
your target, bring her to the dancefloor or get a drink together at the bar, and to be
liberally touching her here. Also make more comments that indicate your SOI –
compliment on her eyes, skin, etc … I would avoid saying things like "You have a
nice ass or really big tits", although GM style can work. I personally do not use it as
it is not congruent with my personality/overall style. I do GM through aggressive
kino, not words…..
HOW CAN I TELL IF THE CHICK IS INTERESTED?
**Well, firstly don't underestimate the fact she is still talking to you, and hasn't
given you the "I'm going to the bathroom/bar/look for my friend [to never return]"
line. That happens, it's part of the occupational hazards. Also, look for good eye
contact, smiles, her touching you & moving closer, etc.
WHAT IF MY TARGET DOESN't FANCY ME, but HER FRIEND DOES?
Well, you have two choices. 1/ You move on. Or 2/ you find out who the leader in
the group is (opinion leader), and get her on your side whether she is the one who
likes you or not. In this second option, you then do a more lengthy standard
seduction that demonstrates your VALUE to the women, so that the target gradually
warms to you. By the end of the nite, chances are the friend will have forgotten how
you actually moved into the target under her nose…. Remember, the bulk of the
initial impression may be appearances-based, so to generate interest in your target
you will have to demonstrate COMPELLING value beyond the appearances
dimension.
SHOULD I GO FOR THE CONTACT # EARLY, and bail? HOW DO I DO THIS?
**I have probably been moving up in my routine how quickly I go for a # close.
Partly cuz chicks can be dragged away by friends, harried near closing, etc. and it is
a bit stealth to go for a # closer sooner, where you may still be in the friends stage.
How to do it? Tell her you"ve really enjyyed getting to know her, let's chat some
more when we have some more time, etc (standard ASF stuff). Hopefully you've
defined a "next time"situation such as sharing some coffee you both like, a movie,
park, etc (again, standard ASF stuff). Logistically, the only way to do it these days
is to whip out your cell phone, & have her type in her # or read it to you, and call her
immediately to get it into your call history. This stage can be greatly facilitated
(maybe Japan specific) by whipping out phones to compare models – I often say I am
looking to upgrade my handset, which is true --, showing pics/etc on the phone, what
have you. The # close grows out of a natural extension of this type of conversation,
and is not this big do-or-die pressure laden inflection point in the PU.
ADVANCED TOPIC: do not give out your biz card unless you really, freely want to
do it. Even then, think 5 times about it. Your privacy/work contact is valuable. Do
you really want to give it up that cheaply? That card could get into the wrong hands
(competition, headhunters, etc) that generate awkward calls to you at work – so be
careful.
ADVANCED TOPIC: If the chick is in a large party-type group, then the optimal
strategy is to get a # contact fast & ask her to call you when she's free. That can
often happen later that nite, particularly if everyone involved (your side & her side) is
bar hopping ;-)
STILL, KIPP, HOW DO I KNOW TO CONTINUE THE SARGE or MOVE ON?
**There is no cookie-cutter answer. One risk of bar work that can lead you to 3rd
base w/ a chick and then a subsequent blur is that you spend the whole nite w/ her but
don't take her home on a successful exit, or she blurs on follow-on contact. Maybe
she ditches you late in the nite, where it is difficult to find new pussy (that sort of
blur
is usually casued by her friends dragging her away, or her using friends as an excuse
to leave if she sees a cute guy, etc). Generally, if a sarge is going really well, I am
on
the dance floor (more later) feeling her up/tonguing her down, I will stay w/ the chick
and try to bring her to another venue away from her friends (eating/coffee) and fuck
her that nite.
Sometimes I take the opposite approach, and simply try to get a collection of #"s.
The latter approach seems more efficient, but deceptively so. If you don't spend
enough time w/ the chick to make her feel good and/or get a tongue down, a follow
on date may be difficult to pull off successfully. You will fuck 90% of your bar
chicks that nite or the very next date (more in Final Thoughts later)– in my
experience, simply meeting at club & dating several times before sex is a very, very
difficult tactic to execute successfully. You need to get the sexual
interest/dominance/pissing on her like a dog marks his territory (metaphorically, of
course) ASAP. Also, if you cut away to sarge in the same club, you risk her seeing
you in action again & her being unreceptive afterwards. You also risk her being
picked up by another guy if you parachute out with time still on the clock. There is
no hard-and-fast rule, but if the PU-in-progress ain"t broke, don"t fix it ? go with
the flow.
If it is early in the nite & you want to get warmed up, walk around real
briefly/friendly and talk to a few pairs of girls. They don't have to be beautiful, but
shouldn't be UGs as they may damage your social proof. Engage them in light
convo, klink glasses w/ them w/ drinks, playfully dance/ grab their arms to warm up
your kino style and loosen you up, all the while continuing to scan to get EC from
other women and/or until you find a woman you really want to FUCK soon. Then
approach her and go through the sarge in depth…..
CAN I TAKE BREAKS? By all means, do so. Go to the mens room occasionally to
check your hair, reapply cologne,etc. Make yourself physically smile so that you are
CONSCIOUS of the need to put out a good face. Go back to the club. Chat up the
bartender. Find out what makes him tick. Maybe ask him for suggestions on how
you can be popular with the honies…most bartenders. if you"ve befriended them,
will talk pretty directly. Also, use this oppt'y to be friendly w/ another solo-type
dude if you want to recruit a Wingman in progress. Maybe talk to them 10 minutes,
spot a cute couple of girlies, and grab him & tell him "Let's go talk to those honies".
Get him in the role of disarming the "friend" of your primary target, so you don't
have to do all the work & get some social proof thrown in to boot!.
KIPP, TELL ME AGAIN HOW DO I GET KINO GOING & GET HER TO THE DANCEFLOOR?
**Up till now in this manual, I have probably OVERESTIMATED the use of
intellectual seduction. In practice, I will often go from opener to 10-15 minutes post-
open talk, lightly rubbing shoulders, legs, to grab hand & head for dance floor/place
arm around back/hips, and then kino. Getting to the dance floor is YOUR JOB to
lead, take her hand, drag her if you have to. If she blows you out here, don't worry
about other chicks seeing this, nobody will care. You are not 'damaged goods",
simply go to the bathroom, refresh, and sarge other chicks. Or go to the next club if
you feel like it.
A tongue down thereafter can be as soon as 10-15 minutes, particularly again as it is
likely LATE and ALCOHOL is kicking in. You need to feel up chicks as soon as
possible, get them in corners, away from their friends. Give them time to resurface &
go see friends (with you in tow), but be ALL OVER THEM LIKE A CHEAP SUIT.
For every 1 chick you lose w/ this aggressive/alpha approach, you will gain 10.
The risk w/ the ultra fast speed dial strategy is you are not building in the
hooks/demonstrating your value outside of sexual excitement. Chicks will blur on
you occassionally even after 2nd base (hence many of the negative club comments by
some guys that dirty dancing, even tongue-downs, don"t really mean shit). I agree.
If you accelerate the kissing/petting, you need to accelerate the EJECT as well and
make sure you are ALL OVER that chick for the rest of the nite. She needs to keep
the high of feeling good w/ you, and not listen to her bullshit friends when they come
to take her away from you.
CAN I SARGE DIRECTLY ON THE DANCE FLOOR?
**The better you dance, the better your chances of executing this tactic. I often move
closer (even if I am dancing with my primary target at the time) physically to other
target women. I will try to lightly brush their hips when I am dancing, etc, smile,
make EC. (Damn, Japan is great – one chick I blatantly open-palmed ass rubbed for
like 10 minutes near close in her tight jeans –hell, she kept backing into my hand &
didn't move away one iota!!!, when I was dancing w/ my primary whom I still am
dating as one of my stable chicks;-)
You can also go up directly to a pair of women / group of women & start dancing.
Usually you can sense their interest – or lack thereof. Or if it is a dirty dancing/hip
hop contact dancing type of venue, just grab on to them & dance. See if they respond
or move away. Generally, though, I have backed away a bit from the direct dance
floor approaches, because they often end in dirty dance only – unless the girl seems
real happy you are dancing w/ her (again, read the body – is she smiling, touching
you, grinding her ass into your crotch?) then you can take away to a corner to
talk/pet, depending on the stage you're at.
HOW DO I HANDLE HER FRIENDS?
**You actively encourage other guys to hit on her friend(s). And I mean actively.
You say they look like a cute couple. You put her hands on him/his on her, etc. This
is not the time to be shy, my friend. Furthermore, you keep your physical distance
from friends. You politely acknowledge them to absolute minimum levels, but do
not indulge them. If your chick insists on walking towards her friends, don"t lose
physical contact with her. Where possible, physically block her friend from your
target (not in an obvious way, though). Your chick has made a choice to FEEL
GOOD WITH YOU that nite – that is why chicks go to clubs, after all. They want to
FEEL WANTED. SEXY. HAVE FUN. We are not talking fucking librarians here,
but chicks out on the town for the EXPRESS purpose of HAVING A GOOD TIME.
It is your job to DEFINE GOOD TIME for them & deliver it with SATISFACTION
GUARANTEED.
HOW TO EJECT? HOW TO GET RID OF COCKBLOCKING FRIENDS?
DO I EJECT WITH FRIENDS IN TOW?
**Frankly, this is the weakest part of my nite. I have learned from alpha PUAs, who
never seem to say no & quit, and am still learning. Basically, literally tell her you are
hungry or whatever and drag her in tow. If she protests about her friends, tell her
you'll bring her back after eating (a lie) – in this case, maybe choose clubs where re-
entry is easy. She should have her cell phone, so just tell her to bring it & she can
easily call her friends (chicks do this ALL THE TIME – they are bullshitting you if
they say they need to be w/ their friends in visual sight all the time). Something else
you can do – assuming you have gotten tongue down before – tongue her down again
forcefully. Drag her out. You can do it. Give her chick bullshit back to her about
"what was that tonguedown all about, I KNOW you really like me by the way we
kissed, etc etc". Make her FEELINGS work, not her CONSCIOUS mind. Her Mind
wants to say NO, her body YES. You work on the body, not the mind. Make her
drink more booze if necessary, then repeat the process.
OK, WE HAVE EJECTED. WHERE DO WE GO?
**If you told her you were going to go to eat, do it. A fast food joint. Sit directly
next to her & feel her up while eating. Try to eject to your place ASAP. Use a
cab/car rather than train. Drag her along, tongue her down/feel her up/compliment
her/divert her attention along the way. Same techniques as before. Have her call
her friends & tell her she's OK,; it will be OK (CHICKS do this ALL THE TIME).
DO I PAY FOR HER, if a SARGE IS GOING WELL?
**Don't buy chicks drinks. You have not completed the sarge until SHE HAS
SWALLOWED YOUR MEAT & TASTED YOUR JIZZ. Don't forget the standard
ASF rules in progress. I have made mistakes in paying for post-club dinners (I am
often a bit drunk by this time as well) and drinks along the way (I will NEVER pay
for a drink right off the bat), only to be burned. Feign indifference, surprise
whenever it comes time to pay. Chicks will usually get the cue, and if they are worth
anything they will be prepared to fend for themselves/have budgeted the nite
properly. Paying for the drink will not get you the pussy; grabbing the pussy in a
dark corner will. Don't forget that. If you absolutely must, pay for your chick only
but don't be a fucking ATM machine for all her friends unless they are all gonna
come back to your place to fuck you in a wild orgy scene ;-)
ADVANCED TOPIC: well, hmm Kipp, it sound slike a lot of work to chat up a pair,
choose a target, and manage group dynamics. Why not just bring both of them back
to your place & fuck them silly???….ahhhhh, the topic of club generated group-
fucks. I have not done this. It seems eminently do-able, but overriding social mores
unfortunately do apply in clubs ;-(. Once I brought a pair back to my place & felt
them both up, but I was too drunk to work it & one turned really frigid. Once I
talked really GM to one chick and grabbed her ass blatantly while she was grabbing
my dick as she was dancing w/ my wing-recruit in progress, all the while I was
grinding w/ my primary. That one could've worked – and in fact I got a follow-up
call from them – but logistically on transportation issues crashed. I have one in
progress where I am following up w/ 2 chicks who are interested in me (they are best
friends), but one has a BF she brings along when we meet. I plan to crack the 3P
(three-some) nut from a club generated lead this year, and will have more. It is not
quite the lay-up that it seems, and should be!!!!!
WHAT IF I FAIL LATE at nite, and MY CHICK LEAVES WITH HER FRIENDS or worse, another GUY?
**That happens. Rather than sulk, embrace the OPPORTUNITY to open your eyes
& see what real life is in the after-hours club scene. In fact, you may want to do this
as part of your test-run(s) before you ever try to sarge at all, to open your eyes that
hot girls DO fuck guys they meet 2 hours ago in a club. This is how I learned how
to be more ALPHA in my approach. And that is why I don't feel guilty about being
aggressive? The fact is,more often than not, if I am the "nice guy" willing to listen to
a chick and back off on protests I am going to fast/too far, then some other guy
around the corner will step in and fuck her. Then she will send him 5 e-mails that
week about how she really digs him "as a person" even. And she won't even pick up
the phone when I call, assuming I had # closed. I HAVE HAD THESE PAINFUL
EXPERIENCES. It is true. Until you have fucked the chick & made her yours, you
are NOTHING to her. You have to fuck her fast!!!!!
Why did I change my style, and focus on ONS?
When I noticed girls getting into cabs who were different from the guys I had seen
them with 2 hours ago. When I noticed girls getting into cabs w/ "strange guys" at
all. When I noticed that girls suddenly did not have their friends w/ them (guy or
girl), whom I had assumed wrongly would be stuck with them like glue all nite.
When I noticed, yes, that girls whom I had sarged but decided were unfuckable were
jumping w/ joy into into cabs w/ other guys. And, even in one case, where I saw a
"friend" leaping into a cab w/ a guy where my girl (her friend) had dissed me 1 hour
earlier saying "I can't leave with you Kipp, I have to go home with my friend" -- my
girl probably had jumped into some guy's car sight unseen to me 10 minutes earlier
? LIES, all of them!! Learn!!! Open your eyes. Don't get angry, get FUCKING
EVEN with your STEVEN.
I went back and tallied my club scores, about 16 ONS in 2 continents over the past 4
years. This is a lot of ONS, and I know a lot of guys eschew ONS as cheap & risky.
Why this focus on ONS? Partly #'s by my experience, and judging the probabilities
of success. I have fucked, in addition to the ONS group, an additional 9 women on
follow-up # contact (NOTE to Maniac? this may be lower than the # I initially
suggested in Part 1). That is a pretty low #, and it surprised me. What further
surprised me was that to get those 9 follow-on fucks, I dated about 15-20 women.
Some women I dated multiple times. So my success rate in a fuck close fell to 50%
when I followed up. And if I could not get the fuck close on the very next date after
club # close, my success rate fell to like 10% (3 or 4 chicks only).
Therefore, for those of you who think I am too focused on moving too fast, my
experience –even more than I would have supposed – suggests that TIME is an
ENEMY in the club channel PU. (NOTE; I have had more success from
internet/other channels in dating 2-3-4 times & still getting the fuck close eventually).
Maybe club chicks are "fast"? Like a Richard Dawkins says, I am facing reality.
Genes are selfish. Girls quickly lose interest in you if they have not committed their
pussy to you. I would, ceteris paribus, prefer to date 3-4-5 times and then go for a
fuck close (I am a normal, well balanced man with many interests outside of PU) ?
however, the RealWorld simply does not seem to accommodate this from my
experience. That is another reason why I emphasize ONS/quick tongue-downs over
getting a handful of #'s which may or may not (probably not) mean shit at the end of
the day, into the next day(s).
Why club chicks, Kipp? To me, the site of young girls in hot fashions wiggling their
tits & asses in an open display of sexuality where they WANT to be SEEN &
FUCKED is an incomparable turn-on. The music/lights/smells create an atmosphere
that we HUMAN ANIMALS can turn on to!!! The #'s are there – like Willie Sutton
said, I rob banks cuz that's where the $$$ is!!!! With a club chick, you can
immediately screen how hot she is (perhaps you may need to apply an alcohol
discount if you've been drinking). A lot of this contrasts with the repressed sexuality
we see in Western countries or even Japan w/ the gray suits/uniforms, and to me the
club experience is LIBERATING. Women are women; men are men. Differences
are celebrated!
Lastly, need I say, be realistic. Be aware of other people – most are friendly, but
there are bad apples out there; when you scan clubs for chicks using my method, also
make a note of shady looking guys who give off a bad vibe & remember to stay clear
of them. Don't make enemies in clubs— if you get dissed, even cruelly, in a sarge,
then simply smile & walk on. Happens to the best from time to time. Don't ask for
trouble—your safety is more important than even CINDY CRAWFORD'S
SNATCH, my friend!!!. Don't leave valuables in club lockers – try to travel lightly.
Always wear a helmut on your soldier & be aware of bodily risks/disease. That is
part of any sexually active lifestyle. A girl who sleeps with you on the first nite – no
matter what she tells you or her friends – likely may have done that before. Don't
harbor illusions – if you take precautions, you should be OK! Have fun. Enjoy.
Comments, helpful criticisms of a general (not personal) nature always welcome.
KIPP
www.pickupguide.com
Kipp, Maniac High
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Copyright 2002
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