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Another way to deal with chicks who want to be abused.

From: "Julian Morrison" <julian.morrison@virgin.net>Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks.

Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 22:54:42 +0000


maniac_high@yahoo.com wrote:> Am I right. Am I wrong. Honest opinions please, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. Constructive> comments/opinions welcome!
Hey Maniac, I'm a total newbie at this, but what immediately occurred tome - once you'd spotted that, you shoulda just let yourself become angrywith her in the debrief, call her a tease, "why if I were over there I'dtan your hide for that" etc etc... basically morph into caveman mode.

---

From: jockey6969@my-deja.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: Some questions, some answers: Eye Contact, Approaches, Neg Hits, PhonesDate: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 15:27:54 GMT

I highly agree.  Buy generic Female Viagra, My two cents is, better to drive them to ANY emotionalextreme rather than none at all.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, This is supported by the "chicks areemotion junkies" so often quoted in this NG.  It also explains whybeautiful women stay with abusive boyfriends, in spite of the fact thatthey say they "just want a nice guy that treats them right".  How manytimes have I, we, been that "nice guy in shining armor" ready to rescueHBabused that we were in love with away from evil Bluto.  Show ofhands, anyone.  (Jockey raises hand sheepishly.)
Ah, but no more.  Now we have seen the way of the Enlightened one, theone they call PUA, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.  Now we know that that to elicit an emotionalresponse is good - even if it's a bad emotion.  After all, drug addictstake both uppers and downers, so why shouldn't emotion addicts (women)do the same.
Whether eliciting sadness as in my post, or anger, as in yours, thegoal is the same.  To stir emotions, order Female Viagra no prescription.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Now, obviously, you don't stay inthe "bad place", you reframe it into a good emotion, or at least areceptive one.  I like your "feminazi" routine, especially theexplanation of being "carried away by her rhetoric".  Brilliant.
It reminds me of a lay I got one time from a chick who live in anapartment upstairs from me.  We somehow got into philosophies, and Iwent into some rant about ends justifying means, and how I didn't carehow I got what I wanted out of life, so long as I got it.  Shedisagreed with this and got pissed off, even said "people like youshould live in shit", Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.  So anyway, a few hours later, we're making out,LOL, we get naked, get in bed, and she STOPS MY ADVANCES.  Start withthe "let's just cuddle" pricktease bullshit.  Probably hadn't doneenough groundwork, a la Maniac.  Buy no prescription Female Viagra online, So anyway, I get pissed, grab myclothes and storm out, (another negative emotion), with her calling myname as I'm walking out.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, I don't turn back.  I go downstairs.  Ireally was pissed, so I must have forgot to lock the door to myapartment.  So about 5 minutes later, she walks in, without knocking,with a very sheepish look and apologetic attitude.  I was in likeflynn.  Soon after, I fuck closed her, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.  She did this really cool thingtoo, where she spun around on my dick in midfuck while straddling me,but that's a different discussion, LOL....
---
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks.

Date: Fri, order Female Viagra online c.o.d, 15 Dec 2000 22:18:39 GMT
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:39:21 GMT, maniac_high@yahoo.com wrote:>The key to the debrief I learned, in conjunction with>something she said the last date.  She said that she didn't Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >'love myself'. Now, why is this important?

I'm surprised you'd never looked into this before.

She's at the stage that she has some insight, and perhaps a wish tochange. Her candor was not necessarily a sign of trust, but one ofpoor boundaries.

>>Well, fast forward to the debrief tonight, and I started>to ask her about her last boyfriend (a playboy type of>guy is sounds like), and me. He didn't treat her well,>but she was interested in him, so she fucked him and>became his GF (one of them I guess), Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. This happened on>date 2 with him.>>Then I asked her what was different about me. She said>the problem was that nothing was wrong with me, in fact,>that I was absolutely perfect, Female Viagra for sale, so that she didn't deserve>such a good guy as me. (my hunch is that she was being>honest about saying this, by her tonality). Well, that is>good, I conveyed that I was a good guy and desireable.


Hmmm...yet your behavior towards women has been similar to her oldBF's, no.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, I'd be interested to know what she means by "good guy". Now,to your credit, Maniac, you've always been forthright with women, if Iam to believe what you post here, which I do, for the most part.

You should draw her out about what she means by "good guy".

It sounds like what she really needs is someone to talk to.

>>Where I fucked up, was that I didn't realize that this>chick hates herself, and thus (like HB blitz) wants to>punish her self for this by throwing her self to shit>guys, and denying herself the 'good' ones when they come.

Then again, where can i order Female Viagra without prescription, if one assumes that she actually is seeking a monogamousLTR, she is expressing her self-destructive tendencies by being with aguy whose goals are different than hers, so in this way, she is alsopunishing herself.

>>As a result of this, I have added into the Maniac plan,>a new part in 'D' (deeper), to see if the girl loves>her self, or what her self opinion is, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. If she hates her>self, then a less caring, more aggressive approach is>needed (the "treat like shit caveman fuck approach")>to fuck such a sort of chick like this because the key>now is that she wants to use you as a form of self>punishment, so you have to be that type of guy for her.>From that step on, the plan get changed/shortened to>pay attention to her less, and treat her like the>piece of she wants to be and thinks she is.
I cringe as I read this.

Throw back the little ones.

>>In short, that was why she fucked the playboy the last>time around (she even said so when I presented the>facts this way). Then he dumped her, and she was really>looking for a new guy to 'punish' her more and abuse>her more.

Yes, exactly.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, I was too 'perfect' and ideal, so looked>to her like I couldn't do the job.. 

Right.
which is why I>failed with this chick.  Buy Female Viagra from mexico, Initially though, I got past>the first date because of the Screambabe invasion.>That made me look like a playboy, and was in>fact, exactly what she was looking for. Just I didnt>sustain that image after that, which is why I lost>out with this particular chick.

She may be looking for something different than the typical LTR.

Its possible that she's very literally seeking punishment from you, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

>>Excellent.. I will recognize this and act appropriately>the next time if it ever happens again. BTW, I also>notice that this "self hate" trait is far more common>in beautiful chicks (HB Blitz, HB Geek), than 'normal'>ones. Important with these beauties especially, to be>on the lookout for it.>>Am I right.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Am I wrong. Honest opinions please.>Constructive comments/opinions welcome!>
See above, and feel free to e-mail me if you are so inclined.

It may be possible for the two of you to develop something veryinteresting, but she must be able to TRUST you to manage the situationcorrectly. In any case, I don't think she's out of reach if you havecompatible goals, australia, uk, us, usa, canada, mexico, india, craiglist, ebay, paypal. As far as the beauty thing goes, I think nicelooking people are shaped differently by the responses andexpectations of others. She has probably come to believe that her onlyvalue in anyone's eyes, perhaps even her own, is physical, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

Kate
---
From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks.
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:24:54 GMT
On 13 Dec 2000 18:59:45 GMT, telembe@aol.com (TELEMBE) wrote:>I'm really sorry that I read this post. This is one of the most callous things>I have ever read on this newsgroup.  > Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >Are you aware that your behavior can push a chick like this close to, or over,>the edge. Since you know through manipulation how to "give" a person what they>want, you are going to be conveying some really desirable qualities even if you>also treat her like shit. (Which, by the way, shouldn't be any sort of a feat>for you, because it's what you do naturally.) >Women like htis don't actually want to be treated like shit, they just feel>it is all they deserve. 

True, although ultimately, she must learn to navigate these waters onher own, Order Female Viagra from mexican pharmacy, as must every woman. I'm not condoning taking advantage ofthe situation, but I don't think its anyone else's responsibility tohelp her re-build her dignity. Its her issue, and it sounds like she'smade some inroads into changing her actions, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

>>You are really fucking this person up by continuing to mount onto her horrible>self-concept that she is a piece of shit.
Like I said, she needs to gain control of her own situation by knowingher goals and sticking to them. It sounds as if she's confused.

>>This leads to all sorts of MESSED UP crap like eating disorders, self>mutilation, drug abuse, depression, and even suicide. And even if you don't>care about HER, consider the chance that somehow she may try to pull you into>her self drama.  Ever heard of borderline personality disorder? Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Actually, some of these may have existed within her sphere for yearsbefore she met Maniac. The bottom line is, people overcome adversityof all kinds, all the time. She will be much stronger for learning todeal with these types of situations.
Kate

----

From: Alan Palmer <alan@sci-log.apana.org.au>Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks.

Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 13:08:11 +1100
maniac_high@yahoo.com wrote:> .., Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

> Excellent., buy Female Viagra online no prescription. I will recognize this and act appropriately> the next time if it ever happens again. BTW, I also> notice that this "self hate" trait is far more common> in beautiful chicks (HB Blitz, HB Geek), than 'normal'> ones. Important with these beauties especially, to be> on the lookout for it.> > Am I right.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Am I wrong. Honest opinions please.> Constructive comments/opinions welcome!> 
To screen for chicks with self-esteem problems, listen to what she says.
She'll tell you what you need to know, even when you first meet her.
Does she tell little humorous stories about herself, in which she loses.
Does she make joking throwaway comments that put herself down. "I'm notworth it", Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. "I don't deserve it".
Does she apologise for things that are not her responsibility. "I'msorry".
Does she have trouble accepting compliments.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, "Oh, no, it's just somedress I threw on."
Does she have trouble acknowledging her own accomplishments.  Female Viagra over the counter, "Oh, no, itwas luck, really." Even a chick who seem to be a high-achiever cansecretly feel she's a worthless fake.
Does she generalise from one or two bad experiences and turn them into"never" and "always". "Waiters always ignore me in restaurants."
Does she tell you about "all" the guys who treat her badly.
She'll tell you all about her self-esteem, or lack of it. She can't helpbut tell you, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. She may disguise it with a joking tone of voice, butshe'll tell you, and more than once. The clues will pour out of her likewater from a seive. All you have to do is listen.
And AFCs, guess what - this applies to you and me.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Listen to yourselveswhen next meet a chick.
What stories do you tell about yourselves. Ones in which you win. Orlose.
What joking throwaway comments do you make against yourself. And howmany, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. Just one or two, online buying Female Viagra, for the sake of humility. Or several, one afterthe other, for the sake of "honesty".
Her chick-logic subconscious will pick it all up. Guess what she's goingto conclude about you and your self-esteem.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, And guess what: she's right in thinking that, isn't she. You'll give herall the clues she needs. The clues will pour out of you. All she has todo is listen.
----
From: maniac_high@yahoo.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 04:39:01 GMT
Everyone, whoisthis, rio, RJ, svengali, zipjack etc.. thank you for yourexcellent comments about my HBgeek debrief report.  Buy Female Viagra in canada, This is why I post real life field reports to ASF, so thatI can get clear direct and varying opinions from all ofyou about what I did right, wrong..etc.
Lets look at all of the major points made, and see whatI I did right and what else I could have done different basedon what you all said. .

Ok, first let us look at the basic premise of what is wrongwith the chick. After the chat with her, and then the discussionsafter here on ASF, my hunch is that my initial premise of thischick is right  (that she wants a playboy or other sort of 'jerk'to play/abuse her, as a form of self punishment).

Zipjack, (a very bright lady, who actually posts alot of usefulthings on the NG, seems to concur, here is a little of what shewrote)
zipjack:>BF's, no. I'd be interested to know what she means by "good guy". Now,>to your credit, Maniac, you've always been forthright with women, if I>am to believe what you post here, which I do, for the most part.>You should draw her out about what she means by "good guy".>It sounds like what she really needs is someone to talk to.>...>She may be looking for something different than the typical LTR.>Its possible that she's very literally seeking punishment fromyou, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.
Ok, so now what do we do about it, rx free Female Viagra.

Well, first thing, is what are my goals with a chick. They are to:1)Lay her2)Make this the best experience she ever had with a guy3)Make her dying to see me whenever I want her to4)Make her see this later as being a very positive experience5)Not do too much work to achieve the above on any given chick (ie. know when to cut my losses)

So now, that in mind, what could I have done better.  Here are some goodopinions from the stack:
Ross Jeffries writes:>   Or maybe you might consider there are more important things in theworld>than using someone's own self-hatred against them just so you can getyour dick Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >wet. Maybe your own self-respect would require you to leave a personlike that>alone for those who enjoy being shitty to her.>..

RJ, is basically right about this. . However, the catch is that, she isgoing to fuck SOMEBODY. Better that she meet me I figure (who is basically agood guy, but can behave like a jerk when he needs to to PU a chick), thanto skip me and get a REAL asshole who thinks she is shit, and will really treather like shit down to the core. At least if she gets over the first 'jerk'fuck with me, I can treat her reasonable (but still keeping in mind how shewants to be treated), and fulfill  2..4 above, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. I think that is betterreally.  Where can i buy Female Viagra online, .
RJ continues:>  Plenty of fish in the sea without dealing with sickos like this. They are>NEVER worth the trouble they bring......EVER.

Very true, but..  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, the problem is that most stunningly gorgeous HBs yourun into are like this. . So best to have an action plan in dealing withthem I figure since it just happens so often. .

Ok, now lets move on to svengali's (it is the real sven BTW) excellentfollowup>> Where I fucked up, was that I didn't realize that this>> chick hates herself,>>errrh.  Wrong!>Where you fucked up was in not knowing her sexual kino factor, and you>didn't turn her on with something, anything, that had her wanting to be>with you both sexually and physically.
My hunch here is that we are both right, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. I didn't turn her on isabsolutely right. And the reason I didn't turn her on, is that I wasn't the 'jerk'she wanted me to be (except for the first date, but we ran out of time thatday, after the screambabe invasion). I didn't get angry at her, and make herfeel like shit, which is what she needs to get turned on. , where can i buy cheapest Female Viagra online.

 Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >Look, women say this shit to themselves over, and over, and over again>to justify what they really want --excitement.  Where do they get>excitement.  From guys that don't do what all the other guys do.
Sven is also TOTALLY right about this. It related to the above. THefirst time she was at my place, I needed to get angry at her, like thatJupiter guy and Rio said, turn on the TV and make her show she is a real womanif she is to get any of my attention. Just making normal 'moves' isntenough (because I was., Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. plenty), she needed some 'sparks' to get things going.
Now, lets look at something else that happened this week for a moment,because this relates to this in an important way.
I had a chat with karatebabe last week, because shewas really being icy to me, and almost the same shit as that HBGeek.

I sent her a sayonara note the next day for her misbehavior (I hadreally planned to break up with her because I was tired of her shit).  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Then she wrote back (since I have been seeing her for over 6 months,I get the truth from her).. 'why you dont get angry at me. That is howcouple can really communicate, Purchase Female Viagra online no prescription, I want to see your anger. But I was coldall day and night (though she did let me fuck her), and you WOULDNT getangry with me. Why. it is not normal!' [end karatebabe chat]
This here is key, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. She gets excited when I get angry, and call thebullshit with her DIRECTLY. I was AFC'ing it out, and tolerated hershit, and just tried to do more 'romantic' talk and shit like that.. but shewanted a fight. THAT is what turns her on.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, And she said so.. directly.
Ok, now back to HBGeek. .

svengali continues:>You're dead wrong!>Honestly!>And if you keep basing your actions on just one, few or some women, you>are headed for diaster, after diaster, after diaster.
I will defer to svengali on this one, buy Female Viagra no prescription. I am curious then, what would you(svengali) have done in this situation, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. That will make things more clearto me for the next time. Please be detailed in the reply, it will bemore helpful to me that way.
Ok, to JMR's post:>There is actually a big part of this covered in Ross' BHSC.  It's called the>"Jerk Destroyer", and it's a very effective way to get a woman out of the>mindset of dating jerks, and focusing all of her energy, love, and lust on you.>>Basically, what I'm saying is, don't cotton to the idea of being a jerk just to>get laid.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Rather, kill two birds with one stone...  you get to help her to>love herself again enough to allow herself to have a great guy, and you get to>be that great guy.  And, best of all, you don't have to be someone that you're
JMR has a good idea here, butI worry that this (and chicks like her) are so fucked up, Buy cheap Female Viagra no rx, that there isno way that this would have worked until AFTER you have already fuckedher, and she starts to listen to you (over and over and over as the relationshipcontinues). Opinions from anyone else. I think the jerk destroyer canwork on 'normal' chicks who are thinking (in a chick way) logically, but thislady was too far gone, I think trying this would have probably brokenrapport because it is so far from her model of herself, and the world. , Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

Ok, lets move on to Greg (a dude I really respect!)>I didnt care much for these rules because they seemed to come from a>place of neediness.  I'm sure you can remeber times where you didnt need>these rules.  Times when you'd be fucking some other chick while HB Geek>would be at your door begging to be let in.  Remeber that shit.  In the Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >old days you wouldn't have to punish, instruct, mindfuck, correct or>anything... just don't answer the door.
Good point. Actually, those days are still around, and that is ALWAYSan option. But it is boring, and I learn nothing from just tossing herout after the first time over, and calling over chick #3.. who I alreadyknow how to fuck., Female Viagra from canadian pharmacy. been there,done that., Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. That just lets me fuck chicks (which I already know how todo),but it does not let me improve my PU skills regarding new types ofchicks (like HBGeek) who I do not know how to fuck yet.
See, I think a chick is like a puzzle. I want to open it, andfind the surprise inside. If I want a fuck, I will just get a chickI already know how to fuck..  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, if I want to learn something new though,I have to do it this way.. it is not neediness.. just tangling with anew kind of puzzle that I am not yet quite sure how to open becauseit is simply interesting to do so, and I want to see how far I can get.

THis is different from just getting sex.. if I want just that, there aresix chicks I can call who will come over in 30 minutes for that. , Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

The above game, with HBgeek, is far more interesting I think. .  Female Viagra pharmacy, > Then call up chick number 5 to meet in the>parking lot for a BJ.  Remeber those days.  If this was a year ago I'm>sure this chick would have been at your door while you was fucking Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, >someone else.  What has changed?
That is probably so.. in fact, in retrospect, that would have been thething to do (see below) to get this chick to want to fuck me.. live and learn.


And now, the correct solution probably would have been something likeJulian and Rio wrote:
Julian writes:>Hey Maniac, I'm a total newbie at this, but what immediately occurred to>me - once you'd spotted that, you shoulda just let yourself become angry>with her in the debrief, call her a tease, "why if I were over there I'd>tan your hide for that" etc etc... basically morph into caveman mode.
Rio writes:>Just curious if you cut off ALL contact with the chick as soon as she>started freaking out.>I've had to do this several times, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. She acts up, gets whiny, and as soon as>it happens, I just whack the TV on and ignore her.>She's in your place, so she's not going to go anywhere. More likely she'll>want to try to sort things out once you have gone cold to her, buy cheapest Female Viagra, though.
Yep, that would have worked (when she was at my place).. this is whereI fucked up. .  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, I will do this the next time.


Comments and opinions welcome.

Thanks everyone for your EXCELLENT comments on this, I learned alotfrom what you all wrote.
Maniac Highhttp://www.pickupguide.com
---
From: Svengali <Svengali_here@use.net>Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Attn: Maniac -- you're directed request for a replyDate: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 18:57:21 -0800> >> Maniac first said:> >> Where I fucked up, was that I didn't realize that this> >> chick hates herself,> > Svengali wrote:> >errrh.  Wrong!> >Where you fucked up was in not knowing her sexual kino factor, and you> >didn't turn her on with something, anything, that had her wanting to be> >with you both sexually and physically.> Maniac replied:> Ok, now lets move on to svengali's (it is the real sven BTW) excellent> follow up

> My hunch here is that we are both right. I didn't turn her on is> absolutely> right, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. And the reason I didn't turn her on, is that I wasn't the 'jerk'> she> wanted me to be (except for the first date, Where can i find Female Viagra online, but we ran out of time that> day,> after the screambabe invasion). I didn't get angry at her, and make her> feel> like shit, which is what she needs to get turned on. .> > Svengali wrote:> >Look, women say this shit to themselves over, and over, and over again> >to justify what they really want --excitement.  Where do they get> >excitement.  From guys that don't do what all the other guys do.> Maniac replied:  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, > Sven is also TOTALLY right about this. It related to the above. The> first> time she was at my place, I needed to get angry at her, like that> Jupiter> guy and Rio said, turn on the TV and make her show she is a real woman> if> she is to get any of my attention. Just making normal 'moves' isnt> enough> (because I was.. plenty), she needed some 'sparks' to get things going.> > Now, lets look at something else that happened this week for a moment,> because this relates to this in an important way.> > I had a chat with karatebabe last week, buy Female Viagra online cod, because she> was really being icy to me, and almost the same shit as that HBGeek.> I sent her a sayonara note the next day for her misbehavior (I had> really> planned to break up with her because I was tired of her shit).> > Then she wrote back (since I have been seeing her for over 6 months,> I get the truth from her).. 'why you dont get angry at me, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. That is how> couple can really communicate, I want to see your anger. But I was cold> all day and night (though she did let me fuck her), and you WOULDNT get> angry with me. Why. it is not normal!' [end karatebabe chat]> > This here is key.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, She gets excited when I get angry, and call the> bullshit with her DIRECTLY. I was AFC'ing it out, and tolerated her> shit,> and just tried to do more 'romantic' talk and shit like that.. but she> wanted a fight. THAT is what turns her on. And she said so.. directly!> > Ok, now back to HBGeek, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. .> svengali continues:> > Svengali wrote:> >You're dead wrong!> >Honestly!> >And if you keep basing your actions on just one, few or some women,> > you are headed for diaster, Buy Female Viagra without a prescription, after diaster, after diaster.> Maniac replied:  > I will defer to Svengali on this one. I am curious then, what would you> (Svengali) have done in this situation. That will make things more clear> to me for the next time. Please be detailed in the reply, it will be> more helpful to me that way.
You got it.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, First off, I'm not into self deprecating/bi-polar women.

Here's how you discover them: Going through your own natural style ofsaying and doing whatever, you see that she's not responding very well.

So you try another avenue, and that doesn't seem to work.  Okay, onemore time through another venue.  Nope, didn't work.
R-e-v-e-r-s-a-l Time, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.
Hey bitch, I didn't ask you this time, I told you...  Now get your assin gear and do it.  [Dead silence, order Female Viagra, big stare down.]She does, she's self deprecating/bi-polar.

She doesn't, and complains/screams: time for scum route.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, "Stop.  I don't want to hear any of your shit.  You're clearly not goodenough for me or anyone else for that matter."Very important: YOU fucking walk and present yourself to next ravishingbeauty you see.  Also very important: you must do this at this point,so you're just going to have to pick the best from what is available.
Alright, now the pro's and con's and everything else that goes into theabove.

1) The bitch does what you say, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.  Fine you've got an S-M situation witha self deprecating/bi-polar woman.  If that's what you want, and ifthat's what you're prepared to deal with, more power to you becauseyou're going to need it.

2) She complains/screams, but stops you before you go, and apologizes:you've got a woman who wants to be dominated, and was testing you tosee if you could do it, Purchase Female Viagra online, and herself to see if this is really what shewants: to be controlled by some guy (her actions told you yes).
She complains/screams, you leave, and she, because you are giving herthe opportunity to do so {see why I said what I did?}, comes to you andapologizes.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, Fine, you say, but she is going to have to make up for herwrong-doing.  {If you don't know where you would go with this, I'mspeaking to the wrong kind of guy.  However, is this the kind of womanand relationship you want to be having?}
Having been there, Maniac, I can tell you that S-M relationships getreal boring, real fast.  Yeah, they're a party for awhile, but then youquickly discover that the women don't do or eat shit --literally--until you tell them to do so.  You will also discover that even thoughyou think you are the master in this kind of relationship, you quicklylearn that you are just as much a slave to it, as you have made her andit out to be.  One other thing, the first guy to come along that iseven more brutal and cruel then you, she's out of there and with him, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

Then you have that situation to deal with, Female Viagra price.  {It's just like the moneywomen who leave to go the next even richer guy.}  So thank you, but nothank you.  It's a no win situation.
I strongly suggest to you, as a guy who has seen other guys who havebeen stabbed, shot and even bludgeoned awake while they were sleeping,that you forget about self deprecating/bi-polar and/or S-M leaningwomen.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, In the end, your life will just be miserable for havinginvolved yourself with them.
Read my "Svengali Secret" post next.
--

  'o o'Svengali

---

From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack)Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Maniac-followup to HBhatesherselfDate: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 17:30:44 GMT
Maniac wrote:
Ok, first let us look at the basic premise of what is wrongwith the chick. After the chat with her, and then the discussionsafter here on ASF, my hunch is that my initial premise of thischick is right  (that she wants a playboy or other sort of 'jerk'to play/abuse her, as a form of self punishment).

Zipjack, (a very bright lady, who actually posts alot of usefulthings on the NG, Female Viagra samples, seems to concur, here is a little of what shewrote)
zipjack wrote:>BF's, no. I'd be interested to know what she means by "good guy", Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. Now,>to your credit, Maniac, you've always been forthright with women, if I>am to believe what you post here, which I do, for the most part.>You should draw her out about what she means by "good guy".>It sounds like what she really needs is someone to talk to.>...>She may be looking for something different than the typical LTR.>Its possible that she's very literally seeking punishment fromyou.

Maniac wrote:

Ok, so now what do we do about it.

Well, first thing, is what are my goals with a chick. They are to:1)Lay her2)Make this the best experience she ever had with a guy3)Make her dying to see me whenever I want her to4)Make her see this later as being a very positive experience5)Not do too much work to achieve the above on any given chick (ie.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, know when to cut my losses)


So if I understand you correctly, you want something that is able toevolve that allows her to develop these self-hating tendencies intosexual expression of literal representation: S and M, basically.

You don't want a traditional LTR, but a sexual odyssey of sorts, thatcould be ongoing.

I will tell you something, online buy Female Viagra without a prescription. There are women who desire just such asituation, but it is very difficult to express this to a man withouthaving him misunderstand completely.

She may or may not be one of these women, but I think she was lookingfor a reaction that would indicate your tastes. She was looking forsome kind of emotional/physical response to her disclosure, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.

Did you let her see YOUR desires.

I don't have much time to get into this right now, but will attempt tolater on. What kind of emotional comfort could you give her throughtaking the right kind of control. (Perhaps this is a question she'sasked herself on some level.) On the other hand, she could be lookingfor a straight, missionary style LTR, leading to marriage and babies,in which case you should cut bait immediately.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, More to follow,
Kate

----

From: whoisthis19@my-deja.comNewsgroups: alt.seduction.fastSubject: Re: ]Debriefing HBGeek. Maniac learns about self-hating chicks.

Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:06:20 GMT
In article <91erl5$7ef$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,  maniac_high@yahoo.com wrote:> >Look, women say this shit to themselves over, and over, and overagain> >to justify what they really want --excitement.  Where do they get> >excitement.  From guys that don't do what all the other guys do.>> Sven is also TOTALLY right about this. It related to the above, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription. THe> first> time she was at my place, I needed to get angry at her, like that> Jupiter> guy and Rio said,

This reminds me of what a woman friend told me one time.  She was awoman who always got into abusive relationships and eventually ended upin prison for shooting a boyfriend.  She was a really good friendthough.  After she got out of prison, she turned her life around throughalot of hard work and help.  Buy Female Viagra No Prescription, I was never afraid of her and we had agood friendship.
Anyway...
One day we had a long talk over coffee.  (I'd never do her since she'sbutt ugly but still a great friend.)  She tells me about how herboyfriend one time threw her down on the floor, pinned her her down andchoked her till she lost consiousness.  He was screaming;  "II'LL KILL YOU!!!!!".  That was the last thing she remebered before shelost conciousness, Buy Female Viagra No Prescription.  She said at that moment she felt tottally loved byhim because she had all the INTENSITY of his feelings focused on her.

She said she was addicted to that and even though she would telleveryone how she didn't like the abuse she would still "end up" in oneabusive relationshp after another.  She just never knew any other way tofeel loved.  She said she would always push the man to the point ofrage.  Like I said it took alot of hard work and support for her to getwhere she is today.  (She was in prison for about 10 years.)
greg the recovering one
--Seduction is so simple and yet we make it so complicated.

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